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  1. keannu's Avatar
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    #1

    percent point vs percent

    25. Which doesn't corresponds with the graph?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The above graph shows the percentages of Americans aged
    12-17 who posted certain types of personal information on
    social media sites in 2006 and in 2012. ① The year 2012 saw
    an overall percentage increase in each category of posted
    personal information. ② In both years, the percentage of the
    young Americans who posted photos of themselves was the
    highest of all the categories. ③ In 2006, the percentage of
    those who posted city or town names was higher than that of
    those who posted school names. ④ Regarding posted email
    addresses, the percentage of 2012 was three times higher than
    that of 2006. ⑤ Compared to 2006, 2012 recorded an eighteen
    percent increase in the category of cell phone numbers

    The answer is 4, but there's a opinion that 5 can be also an aswer.
    When you talk about "percent" difference, does it have to be" percent point" instead of "percent"? This is a hot potato in Korea currently.
    Last edited by keannu; 18-Nov-2014 at 02:41.

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    #2

    Re: percent point vs percent

    Gallo del Cielo has had a similar quandary in the recent past.

    Diagnosed with lymphoma and quickly submitting to the surgery, I then encountered a difficult decision. My Sacramento oncologist recommended chemotherapy, daily for three months, then tri-weekly for another three. These treatments would cause some debilitation. Exactly how much could not be said, for it is not possible to know. Some. A second opinion came from a renown UCSF onc.

    So, I investigated, using mostly the Mayo Clinic site, but not only. It turns out that people with my condition (level 3 carcinoma/lymphoma) had post-surgical recurrence in 4 out of 100 cases if they had the chemo.

    If they did not have the chemo, they had recurrences in 5 out of 100. This difference is small in real terms, especially given the daily gravity of the chemo. But it can be stated that there is a 25% better chance of survival if you submit to the chemo.

    Is this accurate? Is it honest?

    Five is 25% larger than four, but does that accurately reflect the reality?

    Don't know. Gallo is a simple creature.

  2. Raymott's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: percent point vs percent

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    The answer is 4, but there's a opinion that 5 can be also an aswer.
    That's right. A move from 2 to 20 is a 900% increase. (18/2)*100. The increase was 18 percentage points. (We say 'percentage points' in Aus. I don't know if they call it "percent points" elsewhere.
    But 4 is a more obvious answer, since it can't be derived by ignorance. (The difference is not even close to three time higher, or even three times as high.)
    Last edited by Raymott; 18-Nov-2014 at 13:27.

  3. Raymott's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: percent point vs percent

    Quote Originally Posted by gallo del cielo View Post
    Is this accurate? Is it honest?
    No, the recurrence rate is opposite to the survival rate. Survival: with treatment 96%, without treatment 95%. (A 1.0 percentage point increase with treatment)
    You have a 1.05% ((1/95)*100) better chance of survival with treatment. You are 25% more likely to have a recurrence without treatment. But that has no effect on the survival rate difference of 1.05%
    With the minimal increase in survival rate, the 25% increase in recurrence rate would be negligible to me, and I would not have the chemo, which has a close to 100% rate of side effects for only a 1.05% better survival chance.

    I'd be happy for anyone to check my maths.

    PS: Not medical advice. Just saying that with those stats, I wouldn't have the chemo.

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    #5

    Re: percent point vs percent

    The honesty would depend on what they tell people about the rates without chemo. Manufacturers of Nicotine Replacement products boast that they will double your chances of quitting smoking, which sounds positive and great until you find out that they increase your chances of quitting to something like 5% at best.

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    #6

    Re: percent point vs percent

    Is anybody going to answer the OP after his thread was hijacked in post 2?
    Last edited by Rover_KE; 21-Nov-2014 at 16:54.

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    #7

    Re: percent point vs percent

    I will.
    "Percent point" is not the proper expression. "Percentage point" is.

    "The candidate led in the polls by three percent" or "The candidate led in the polls by three percentage points" are both equally valid.

    However, as was noted above, a percentage change is different from a change in percentage points. If my income tax rate goes from 2% to 3%, it has increased by one percentage point. But it has increased 50%.

    Politicians and the gullible like to state that taxes have only gone up 1% in that type of situation.

  4. Raymott's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: percent point vs percent

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    Is anybody going to answer the OP after his thread was hijacked in post 2?
    I did that in post 3. I explained the difference in percentage of Q5. (900%) and contrasted that with the percentage point difference (18 percentage points), and showed how they were different - ie. by showing the working out. I also pointed out that the term was percentage points, not percent points. I hope it wasn't a complete waste of time.
    Well, to your specific question, keannu:
    When you talk about "percent" difference, does it have to be" percent point" instead of "percent"?
    No, you can express it in percentages or percentage points, as long as you use the right calculations. Let's know if you need more help.
    Last edited by Raymott; 22-Nov-2014 at 00:03.

  5. keannu's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: percent point vs percent

    According to SoothingDave, this should be corrected to either 1 or 2, but I tried to find the difference between "percent" and "percentage", and it's still confusing. This may be a math concept, but if someone could help me, I would appreciate it.
    1. 2012 recorded an eighteen percentage point increase
    2. 2012 recorded an 900 percent increase.


    Compared to 2006, 2012 recorded an eighteen
    percent increase
    in the category of cell phone numbers
    Last edited by keannu; 24-Nov-2014 at 17:03.

  6. Raymott's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: percent point vs percent

    There's no point trying to find the difference between "percent" and "percentage" when we are discussing "percent" vs. "percentage point".
    From the graph, 2012 recorded a 900% (percent) increase, which is an 18 percentage point increase.
    Your third, unnumbered statement is wrong. The 2006 figure is 2. If there was an 18% increase, that would be a 0.36 increase to make 2.36, not 20.
    Percent: 2 + 2*18/100 = 2.36. That is, the original 2, plus 18/100 (18 percent) of 2.
    Percentage point: A rise from 2% to 20%, is an 18 (20 - 2) percentage point difference. What you can't say is that there is an 18% (percent) difference between 2% and 20%. 20 is ten times as big as 2, and nine times bigger (900%). How can it be only 18% bigger?

    An increase from 25 to 50 is a 100 percent rise (since you have to add another 25 to 25 to get fifty), and a 25 percentage point rise, because that's the raw difference between the two numbers.

    Yes, you are right, it's a mathematical or statistical point.
    The English part of your question might be clearer if you looked up "percentage point" vs. "percentage", though both Dave and I have illustrated the difference.

    This is a hot potato in Korea currently.
    What exactly is the hot potato? And who is confused? Surely you have mathematicians and statisticians in Korea.

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