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  1. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #21

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    The first correct thing you've written in the thread Mike.
    LOL! In your opinion. I admit I am wrong when I am wrong. We just have a different view of what a vowel sound is. That does not make you right. Words rhyme because of the vowel sounds. That has always been true. If you don't like the word "pure" so be it.

  2. probus's Avatar
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    #22

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Quote Originally Posted by SoothingDave View Post
    Yes, "too" and "you" rhyme.

    You are confusing how the name of the letter "U" is said with the sound that the letter makes. The sound it makes is a "pure vowel." If we say "true" we do not insert a "y" consonant sound in there.

    It is only when we say the name of the letter that we insert a "y" of sorts.
    Ignoring the subsequent controversy and coming back to SoothingDave's effort to help the OP, it is a question of accent. In AmE we do not "insert a y" as SoothingDave puts it. For us, a tube is a toob. But in London, The Tube is the tyube.

    I hope that makes sense, without phonetic symbols. If not, let me know and I will try to do phonetic symbols.
    Last edited by probus; 04-Apr-2015 at 04:58.

  3. Junior Member
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    #23

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Quote Originally Posted by TaiwanPofLee View Post
    First, does word you rhyme with word too because the pronunciation of word you consists of a consonant sound /y/ and a vowel sound /oo/ and that of word too consists of a consonant sound /t/ and a vowel sound /oo/?
    NOT A TEACHER

    Hello TaiwanPofLee,

    I think the answer to your question depends on whether or not you consider /ju:/ a single vowel-unit. Since /j/ is a consonant sound, regarding /ju:/ as a single vowel-unit (diphthong) may sound weird to you, but it’s not that uncommon. Actually a lot of textbooks treat /ju/ NOT as two phonemes (a sequence of a consonant phoneme /j/ and a vowel phoneme /u:/), but as a single diphthongal phoneme. And it seems to be justifiable from a historical point of view. In Late Middle English, the vowels in “new” and “dew” were pronounced like /iu/ and /eu/ respectively, and these diphthongs gradually merged into /ju/.
    So, if you regard /ju:/ as just a sequence of a consonant /j/ and a vowel /u:/, the answer is “yes,” but if you regard /ju:/ as a single diphthong, the answer is most likely “no,” because “too” and “you” have different vowels (/u:/ and /ju:/).

  4. Member
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    #24

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Thank you for your response, N Senbei.

    What's on my mind is that 1) word you rhymes with word too, and 2) letter U is not a pure vowel like letter A, E, I or O because its pronunciation is /y/+/oo/, /y/ being a consonant.

  5. Raymott's Avatar
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    #25

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Quote Originally Posted by probus View Post
    Ignoring the subsequent controversy and coming back to SoothingDave's effort to help the OP, it is a question of accent. In AmE we do not "insert a y" as SoothingDave puts it. For us, a tube is a toob. But in London, The Tube is the tyube.
    The OP has persisted in asking about the sound of the name of the letter 'U'.
    Do you call it 'oo'?

  6. Raymott's Avatar
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    #26

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    I admit I am wrong when I am wrong.
    I can't ever recall it.
    You don't know what a pure vowel is, do you Mike? Are you even slightly ashamed at misleading students like this? When someone contradicts you by giving a correct answer that differs from yours, do you ever wonder whether they might be right? That is, for whatever reason (here, your weakness in phonetics), you could be wrong?
    This bravado of persisting in being 'right' when you're not can only drag down the quality of the teaching here.

  7. Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    #27

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    A schoolchild I spoke to the other day (UK school) said she is learning her "a-buh-kuh". The "a" sounded like the "a" in "bat" and the "b" and "c" were simply the sounds from the first letter of "bat" and "cat" respectively. She did not seem to know the "names" of the letters (ay, bee, see).
    That is what I meant- I was surprised the first time I heard it.

  8. Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    #28

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    If the tongue, lips,etc move, it's a dipthong to the IPA, so some sounds that many would consider single sounds are not to them. I would not regard /æ/ as in 'BAT' as a dipthong, but I do think that things like /eɪ/ as in 'bake' are.

    Things are heating up here. Could we turn it down a bit? Thanks.

  9. Raymott's Avatar
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    #29

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U


  10. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #30

    Re: sounds of word you and letter U

    Ray, we are talking about different things. It appears that you don't know that. I am talking about vowel sounds. You are talking about phonetic symbols. Phonetic symbols mean nothing to the vast majority of the population.

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