Were you taught any kind of phonetic symbols at class in your primary school?

Status
Not open for further replies.

probus

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
I can't think of a reason for most Engish-speaking students to know about phonetic symbols.

For the most part, English-speaking students are irrelevant here. We teach ESL.
 

Charlie Bernstein

VIP Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
For the most part, English-speaking students are irrelevant here. We teach ESL.

Right. That's exactly what I'm saying. The questions were (a) was I taught it and (b) is it a pity? My answers were that (a) I wasn't taught it and (b) it's not a pity. I then added that while it wouldn't have been relevant for me, it might be relevant for language teachers.
 
Last edited:

Charlie Bernstein

VIP Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
The British Council advocates learning and teaching English phonemic symbols to "help your own and your students' pronunciation."
See https://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/article/phonemic-symbols.

It's certainly an interesting area of study. But we don't do a good enough job of teaching the English basics. They don't even teach diagramming anymore. Learning spelling has taken a back seat to the "whole language" approach that produces a lot of smart high school graduates who can't spell:

- Wiki
- Whole language versus phonics

And spelling is bad:

- A bad spell

Meanwhile, American students aren't learning the basics of grammar. Your grammar is better than most U.S. high school graduates'.

- Bad grammar ain't good

The most important skill taught in English class is probably reading comprehension. It would be good to see more time dedicated to that, too:

- Huh?

And if you can't read well, you can't read Shakespeare. Does that matter? I think so, because it stretches your brain, feeds your soul, and acquaints you with a cornerstone of our dominant culture. But many disagree. There's a movement to banish Shakespeare (and a lot of other literature that matters) from the classroom:

- Kill Bill
- Pro and con
- Save Bill

Compared to all that (at least in the U.S., and I suspect elsewhere), pronunciation just isn't that important. I'm as guilty as the other folks here of talking about "standard" American English pronunciation, but really, there's almost no such thing. Ask a dozen Americans to say "Where's the water reservoir?" and you'll hear a dozen different ways of saying it, all of which are affected by each person's location, ethnicity, age, and class.

You might have noticed (even in this very thread) that Mike from New York and I often disagree on American English pronunciations. Mike has excellent English and gives great advice throughout this site. And I don't think my English is bad, either. But his way of talking is probably very New York, and though I've lived in New York, mine isn't, because I didn't learn to talk there. So the way I speak (and hear) English is different. Neither of us is wrong. We just come from different language environments.

Even on the most crass commercial level, employers care about spelling and grammar. They do not care about pronunciation.

So if public education could just get people to agree on grammar and spelling and pick up a book or a newspaper now and then, it would be working miracles.

Don't misunderstand me. I have no quarrel with phonetic symbols! But with too few hours already dedicated to spelling, grammar, reading comprehension, and literature, adding pronunciation - a topic that's interesting to some but not vital for many - doesn't seem like good pedagogy. Instead, let's teach phonetic symbols to the college students who are actually likely to use them - for instance, to teach English to non-English-speaking people who want to learn how.
 
Last edited:

TaiwanPofLee

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Taiwan
Current Location
Taiwan
Thank you for your lengthy, sensible and knowledgeable response, Charlie!

Just a couple of different opinions:
1. Pronunciation is (very/more) important, because it is the foundation of all other aspects of English learning.
2. Both UK and USA primary school teachers ought to teach their students English phonemic symbols (not necessarily one and same system) to help students' pronunciation and establish common, standard English pronunciations.
3. It is neither difficult (as the British Council has said it) nor time-consuming to teach and learn English phonemic symbols.
 

Tdol

No Longer With Us (RIP)
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
They don't even teach diagramming anymore.

I never came across diagramming in the UK education system- I first heard of it on the internet ten years or so ago.
 

MikeNewYork

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Diagramming sentences was an integral part of my elementary school education, I found it to be very helpful for understanding grammar. For me, it is far more useful than teaching phonemic symbols.
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
The closest we came to diagramming at school was "Underline the verb/adjective/noun" in given sentences. Most of what I learnt about grammar at school came from learning French and German.
 

Karima04

Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
Morocco
Current Location
Morocco
Hello , by the way I'm from Morocco , we begin to learn English in high school & we didn't study phonetic symbol... It was only in university that I started to learn phonetic symbol.

As an addition, I read a comment which say that there's no need for phonetics & we have to hear how the word pronounced. I can't agree with this part unless if the student is a native speaker or have good ears . Because for people who are non-natives or have problem like lack of hearing find that Phonetic is more useful & helpful to know how to pronounced words...

Regards !
 

TaiwanPofLee

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Taiwan
Current Location
Taiwan
Hi, Karima04!

Do you think you could have learned English pronunciation better if you had learned phonetic symbols when you began to learn English?
 

Tdol

No Longer With Us (RIP)
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
I do honestly think that there is less need nowadays in places where people have internet access and can hear pronunciation much more easily than they could a few decades ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top