Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran

    • Join Date: Apr 2015
    • Posts: 26
    #1

    That vs which

    Hi,
    Look at the sentence below:

    - I eat only meat ...... has been organically farmed.

    Yes. This one can be such a source of argument. There are plenty of people -- most from the UK -- who will swear that we can only use 'that' in this case. But, I think otherwise. I believe that we can use either. If we want to change the meaning we simply add a comma, in which case we can only use 'which'. To my experience, integrated relatives with 'which' are grammatical in all varieties of English and the notion that there is something wrong with them is just an invention of prescriptivists.

    Now, tell me the reason if 'which' cannot work here without a comma. (I eat only meat, ...... has been organically farmed.)

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2009
    • Posts: 6,332
    #2

    Re: That vs which

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Hello, Roozbeh:

    This is what I was taught.

    1. It was an English gentleman named Henry Fowler who suggested in the early twentieth century that one should use only "that" for defining clauses.

    2. Nevertheless, I understand that many British people accept either "that" or "which" for defining clauses.

    3. It is the Americans who insist on using only "that" for defining clauses.
    Last edited by TheParser; 25-May-2015 at 16:31.

  1. emsr2d2's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2009
    • Posts: 41,826
    #3

    Re: That vs which

    Click here for dozens of previous threads on the topic. Had you typed "that vs which" into the Google Custom Search box at the top right-hand corner of the forum page, you would have found them.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran

    • Join Date: Apr 2015
    • Posts: 26
    #4

    Re: That vs which

    I did. I just need your own personal belief in this case.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Persian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • Iran

    • Join Date: Apr 2015
    • Posts: 26
    #5

    Re: That vs which

    Tdol, Rover, Raymott? Any idea?

  2. Roman55's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Italy
      • Current Location:
      • France

    • Join Date: Feb 2014
    • Posts: 2,309
    #6

    Re: That vs which

    Quote Originally Posted by Roozbeh View Post
    There are plenty of people -- most from the UK -- who will swear that we can only use 'that' in this case.
    I am not a teacher.


    Where did you get this idea from?


    Both 'that' and 'which' work. If the sentence ends after 'farmed' you don't need a comma.
    Last edited by Roman55; 26-May-2015 at 09:58.

  3. MikeNewYork's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 24,983
    #7

    Re: That vs which

    Parser, only some Americans insist on that. Many accept "which" for defining clauses.

  4. Barb_D's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2007
    • Posts: 19,216
    #8

    Re: That vs which

    I'm one of the people in the "that" group. "That" for restrictive/defining and "which" for additional information. But there are fewer and fewer of us all the time.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  5. MikeNewYork's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 24,983
    #9

    Re: That vs which

    I once was in the group. Then I learned that that rule was a myth.

  6. Barb_D's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2007
    • Posts: 19,216
    #10

    Re: That vs which

    I find it useful to give the reader a heads up that what will follow is either essential to knowing which thing/person/place/etc. I mean or is just interesting extra information. So it's a useful convention. I don't care if it's a "rule."
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •