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    #1

    Please help me to clarify this debate.

    Q: Jane's pale face suggested she should be ill, her parents suggested that she"have" a medics examination.

    A: B is grammatically correct. The subjunctive remains in force even though it is likely the patient will follow the doctor's advice. To actualize the blood test with "has" would be telling an untruth. The subjunctive holds the notion of a suggestion in place. Thus does grammar make its own modest contribution to truthful speaking.

    I don't see how this can be grammatical, please back me up with reasons, or any feedback would be appreciated.

  1. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    I don't see an A or a B. The question sentence is a comma splice. There should be a semicolon or a period/full stop after "ill".

    The structure in the sentence is the mandative subjunctive. It uses the present subjunctive. It is not about likelihood. You should Google "mandative subjunctive" if you wish to know more.

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    #3

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    I'm so sorry about the confusion, the original question was Jane's pale face suggested she ___ ill, her parents suggested that she ___ a medical examination.

    a. be, should have
    b. was, have
    c. should be, had
    d. was, has

    We didn't come up with the question, it was a lousy question to begin with but we have a few teachers debated around this. I think B is the best choice but it's far from grammatical. The context
    her parents suggested that she"have" a medical examination.

    One of the teachers said "
    The subjunctive holds the notion of a suggestion in place. Thus does grammar make its own modest contribution to truthful speaking." I'm trying to prove him wrong. Could you shed some light?

  2. emsr2d2's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    I can't make anything but "Jane's face suggested she was ill; her parents suggested that she have a medical examination" make sense. That's a grammatical and comprehensible sentence.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

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    #5

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    I can't make anything but "Jane's face suggested she was ill; her parents suggested that she have a medical examination" make sense. That's a grammatical and comprehensible sentence.
    So in short is it under mandative subjunctive, you can put "she + have" together? It just doesn't sound right, I would've word it "her parents suggested that she go and have a medical examination" instead.

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    #6

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by akurain View Post
    You can put "she + have" together? It just doesn't sound right.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    The situation may be changing, but I believe that most educated Americans still like the sound of the subjunctive. (Although I have noticed that many presumably well-educated Americans have no trouble with "If I was you," instead of "were.")

    Here is some information from a book published in the 1950s!

    "After such verbs as recommend, suggest, demand, require, etc., when such verbs are used to indicate some possible or proposed situation, we use the subjunctive mood, present tense."

    "He recommended that she wait."
    "He insisted that I be there at noon."

    NEVERTHELESS, the author said (in the 1950s!) that "the general tendency is to circumvent them in favor of more simple forms."

    Thus, the book says that many people would be more comfortable with "He recommended that she should wait" or "He advised her to wait."


    source: Robert J. Dixson, Practice Exercises in Everyday English for Advanced Foreign Students (1957).


    *****

    By the way, you know that you DID use the subjunctive in "Her parents suggested that she go and have a physical examination."

  3. emsr2d2's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by akurain View Post
    So in short is it under mandative subjunctive, you can put "she + have" together? It just doesn't sound right, I would've word it "her parents suggested that she go and have a medical examination" instead.
    There is no need for the extra words in your version. After "suggested that", the subjunctive is used.

    I suggested that she have a medical exam.
    He suggested that she go to the doctor.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

  4. Raymott's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by akurain View Post
    So in short is it under mandative subjunctive, you can put "she + have" together? It just doesn't sound right, I would've word it "her parents suggested that she go and have a medical examination" instead.
    That is not a different construction.
    "Her parents suggested that she [go and] have a medical examination."
    If you don't like "she have", why do you accept "she go"?

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    #9

    Re: Please help me to clarify this debate.

    Akurain, please correct the information in your profile.

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