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    #1

    sentence construction

    Hello,

    here is an extract from the Tavistock Institute by John Coleman

    http://thinkorbebeaten.com/Library/T/Tavistock Institute of Human Relations.pdf

    this is page 274

    Tavistock Institute has perfected its techniques so much that
    recent expert opinion is that 70% of all capital and human
    resources that the U.S. government advertising/propaganda
    programs devotes to for strategic objectives, going to
    psychological operations, the propaganda, which these
    psychological operations are comprised have become the single
    most significant part of what it means to be American and
    British.

    Is there someone who could explain in plain English the exact meaning of it?
    Not sure to understand everything...

    Thank you!

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    #2

    Re: sentence construction

    First let me congratulate you on reaching page 274 of this long-winded and turgid thesis before getting bogged down in this rambling, ungrammatical load of bullspit.

    Some of my younger colleagues may have time to give you a considered answer; at my age I have already spent five minutes on it that I'll never get back.

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    #3

    Re: sentence construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    First let me congratulate you on reaching page 274 of this long-winded and turgid thesis before getting bogged down in this rambling, ungrammatical load of bullspit.

    Some of my younger colleagues may have time to give you a considered answer; at my age I have already spent five minutes on it that I'll never get back.
    Thanks for answering!

    The thing is that I've been asked to translate it into French and I must admit that I'm a bit fed up with the numerous ungrammatical sentences and illogical thoughts contained in this "book"

    3 pages left and I'm done with it

  1. Eckaslike's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: sentence construction

    Hello fredreborn,

    No wonder you are having difficulty with this awful paragraph. As Rover_KE has said, it is very poorly written and long-winded. (And that comment is something coming from me! ).

    To me, the only way to make it intelligible is for it to be re-written, along the lines I have indicated below, by removing the bits I have put in red and adding the extra words in blue:

    Tavistock Institute has perfected its techniques so much that
    recent expert opinion is that 70% of all capital and human
    resources (that) the U.S. government advertising/propaganda
    programs devote(s) to (for) strategic objectives, go(ing) towards
    psychological operations. The propaganda, from which these
    psychological operations (are) originate, (comprised have) has become the single
    most significant part of what it means to be American and
    British.


    Others might make additional changes, but that at least makes it semi-understandable. Even then I don't like the repetition of that in the first sentence.

    What an impenetrable forest of words!
    Last edited by Eckaslike; 08-Jul-2015 at 20:53. Reason: Editing typos

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    #5

    Re: sentence construction

    What an impenetrable forest of words!
    Yes indeed!

    There are few sentences of this kind in the book, chaotic syntax out of a chaotic mind I'm afraid.
    I was about to skip it...
    Thanks a lot for the translation as you say it's semi-understandable now

  2. Bennevis's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: sentence construction

    This happens when the author changes the text a few times and then does a bad job editing it in the end.

  3. Eckaslike's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: sentence construction

    When reading the pdf document, it appeared a very strange jump from talking about the battles of Passchendaele and Verdun to be then followed by the paragraph you quoted which is set in the present.

    It's around one hundred years from then to now, but the author gives us no indication as to how the researchers assume the Allied propaganda of WWI has become the supposed 70% of all US resources spent on "psychological operations". There are also no citations at this point to refer the reader to view the evidence for such a claim. Never a good sign.

    It's like a large chunk of the book is missing.

    As they say, "Rather you than me!".

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    #8

    Re: sentence construction

    Quote Originally Posted by fredreborn View Post
    The thing is that I've been asked to translate it into French...
    I hope you're being well paid — you deserve every centime.

    Before Eckaslike's excellent editing job, I was going to suggest that you translate it literally, leaving any readers of the French version to fathom it out for themselves, just as readers of the original have to.

    I can't help feeling that despite your best efforts, no French speaker is ever going to have enough patience or interest in the content to get past the first page of this truly awful diatribe.

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    #9

    Re: sentence construction

    Well I think that the editor was not (completely) aware of this aspect of things when he asked me to do the job, I soon drew his attention on the ungrammatical sentences and nonsense I was stumped by and I was said that I was free to interpret as I liked as long as it was good French.
    What surprises me is that there also exists a German translation of it (maybe a Russian one too), somewhere someone has toiled with this writing just like me, poor relief.

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