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    #1

    How to express the thought

    Hello everybody.

    I would like to ask you about how to express the idea that the crew's duty was to shift the covers over/along/on the cargo hold hatches - which preposition is the best in this case?

    How about this?

    It was up to/for the crew to slide the hatch covers over the cargo hold hatches or it was the crew's job to slide/move the hatch covers over the cargo hold hatches - again which preposition is the best?

    Maybe verbs need replacing?

    I am sorry about a typo.

    Could you express your opinion?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by JACEK1; 11-Jul-2015 at 07:13.

  1. Eckaslike's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: How to express the thought

    Hello JACEK1,

    In cases like these, I always find, it helps to think about the specific objects involved and how they work. You already seem to be thinking along those lines, which is good.

    Firstly, you want to use a word which suits the specific objects involved. Are these cargo holds and covers on a boat or a ship?

    Secondly, in this instance you want a word which indicates how the covers move. Therefore a word like "on" doesn't work in this sense, because it describes an object in a particular place. It doesn't imply any movement, for example; "The book was on the shelf.", "The dog was on the path.", and even, "The car was on the road.", which by itself, doesn't tell you whether the car was parked or moving.

    So, if this is a boat or ship, are the covers thrown over the cargo holds or do they slide over them? Both indicate movement, but what type of movement is right in this scenario?

    With those ideas in mind, would you like to have another go? (Please also let me know whether the setting is on a boat, ship, or something else as this will help me to know if you have chosen a version that works).
    Last edited by Eckaslike; 10-Jul-2015 at 09:59.

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    #3

    Re: How to express the thought

    The covers are dropped or lowered onto the hatch by crane. Which preposition should I choose?

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    #4

    Re: How to express the thought

    Since the covers are heavy panels of steel which are handled by cranes, a operation which requires great care, you say they are placed (lifted and lowered) in position on the cargo hatches.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #5

    Re: How to express the thought

    Let's wait for English-speaking members to express their opinion. Meanwhile, I would like to ask you another question about another type of hatch covers. May I?

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    #6

    Re: How to express the thought

    Please note that a better title would have been Slide/move the hatch covers.

    'Thread titles should include all or part of the word/phrase being discussed.'

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    #7

    Re: How to express the thought

    Coud I ask if one can say "the covers are rolled over / on to the hatches or wheeled longitudinally along the hatches" in the case of covers that roll or wheel.

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    #8

    Re: How to express the thought

    I think this is more a technical question rather than a question of English, which somebody who is familiar with the operations of cargo ships, the different types of hatch covers and the ways of handling them can answer.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #9

    Re: How to express the thought

    Quote Originally Posted by tedmc View Post
    Since the covers are heavy panels of steel which are handled by cranes, a operation which requires great care, you say they are placed (lifted and lowered) in position on the cargo hatches.
    I do not know anything about shipping. Generally, what tedmc says is right, and seems right in this situation.

    However, more specifically about how to use words like these for different types of covers:


    1) Lowered [or its opposite, "raised"]: Tends to be used if the thing being lowered or raised is still attached to the thing that is lowering it. So for example: A castle drawbridge is never free from the chains which lower and raise it. This is why, in films you may hear a character say, "Lower the drawbridge" or "raise the drawbridge", rather than "Place the drawbridge", or "Lift the drawbridge". (See my explanation for "Place" below).

    If the covers are attached to hydraulic rams, or hinges like the diagram at the bottom of this link http://cargohandling.upm.com/en/tran...s/default.aspx then to me, "lowered" works better, because the covers are always attached. So you might say, "the ship's steel covers were lowered to cover the cargo holds". If you want to emphasise that this was done carefully you simply add the word to that sort of sentence: "the ship's steel covers were carefully lowered to cover the cargo holds". If you want to emphasise it a great deal to say it had been done very carefully, then add "very": "the ship's steel covers were very carefully lowered to cover the cargo holds". Similarly, if you want to make sure they do it carefully and safely you might say:
    "The crew should ensure that the ship's steel covers are very carefully, and safely, lowered to cover the cargo holds."

    2) Placed [or its opposite "lifted"]: As tedmc has illustrated, this relates to raising and lowering of objects. But, usually in the more specific sense that, the thing being lowered is not permanently attached to the thing raising or lowering it. So to me: "The covers are placed by the cranes", implies the covers are completely removable, they are lowered in by the hook of a crane and then the crane's hook is removed leaving the cover on top of the cargo hold. Like the lid on a jar which has no permanent attachment. You place the lid on a jar, you then lift, or take the lid back off a jar. You place a letter on the table, you lift it up from the table. With removable covers on a boat, as tedmc has said, you would say they are "placed over" the cargo holds [or its opposite; the covers are "lifted off" from the cargo holds].

    3) Dropped [or its opposite probably something like "lifted", again, depending on context]: The item is left to free-fall to the ground. A very bad thing! People might say this colloquially "We dropped the lids onto the cargo holds", but they won't mean it literally. They will still mean lowered which implies a controlled motion. "Dropping" something is totally uncontrolled. e.g.: "I accidentally dropped the milk bottle and it smashed on the floor". If you literally dropped a steel cover in reality the consequences could be very serious indeed.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now to your next question:

    "Could I ask if one can say "the covers are rolled over / on to the hatches or wheeled longitudinally along the hatches" in the case of covers that roll or wheel."

    If they are like the ones in on this web link http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...017603697.html then I would naturally say, "the covers are rolled horizontally along the rails to cover the hatches", or the opposite, "the covers are rolled horizontally along the rails to open the hatches". You correctly chose, "rolled" which is used where things run on wheels, or are round and roll, like footballs.

    [You could use the version you wrote "The covers are rolled over the hatches" if you are able to talk about it more generally. You might do this after you have used a more specific sentence to say how they work. The reason I used "cover" twice in my sentence is that even though it is a repeated word, the second "cover" implies that the cargo holds are completely covered. If you need to be hyper-specific you might use:
    "The covers are rolled horizontally along the rails to completely cover the hatches", or the opposite, "The covers are rolled horizontally along the rails to completely open the hatches".

    (Use of the word "horizontally" will probably depend on where the crew are from. For crews using British English, then I would use "horizontally" unless there is a good shipping reason not to. They should all understand this the most. I know that you have "latitude and longitude" in navigation, but I wouldn't use either for general objects; I would say things like "the ball rolled horizontally across the floor". I have never said, "the ball rolled latitudinally across the floor.". However, other regions may use "latitudinally and longitudinally" quite naturally. To me as a BrE speaker, it doesn't seem natural at all for general use).

    Again, you can emphasise this by adding "carefully", if you wish to say they are doing it with care:

    "the covers are carefully rolled horizontally along the rails to cover the hatches", or the opposite, "the covers are carefully rolled horizontally along the rails to open the hatches"

    Again, if you want, or need, to emphasise "safety" you put mention it in the sentences:
    "the covers are very carefully, and safely, rolled horizontally along the rails to cover the hatches", or the opposite, "the covers are very carefully, and safely, rolled horizontally along the rails to open the hatches".

    The opposite of "horizontally" is "vertically", and is used in the same general sense. So, for example : "The emergency rocket flare was fired vertically from the ship's deck". or "The tree grew vertically from out of the ground". Again this is in British English, other areas may use other terms quite happily.

    Hopefully this general overview will help to get you started. If you want to try writing a few more examples and posting them here, then that's fine.

    Others may have some additonal thoughts.

    If things need to be more technical than this, though, then as tedmc said , you will probably need to ask someone who is "familiar with the operations of cargo ships, the different types of hatch covers and the ways of handling them".
    Last edited by Eckaslike; 11-Jul-2015 at 23:21. Reason: To edit after re-reading tedmc's posting.

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