The meaning of "China crap"

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oldbei

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Hello, teachers and native speakers,

I need your help here.

About a month ago, a message displayed on the back of a small truck created quite an uproar among the comunity of new Chinese immigrants in Canada. Many of them felt seriously offended by the message and considered it racist. I feel differently because I have a different interpretation of the text, but since my native tongue is not English, I cannot be sure about the correctness my interpretation, let alone convince others that the message is not racist. I seek help here so as to achieve a correct understanding of the text with good confidence.

The text is as follows. (Excuse me for presenting it in all capital letters because I wanted my presentation of the message to be as faithful as possible to the original. For the same reason, I also preserved the same line breaks as the original.)

SAY NO TO CHINA CRAP
THEY POISONED THEIR OWN PEOPLE FOR PROFITS
DO YOU THINK THEY CARE ABOUT US?
PROTECT OURSELVES AND OUR ECONOMY
IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY THIS YOU SHOULD NOT BE IN THIS COUNTRY

Those who feel offended the most are the ones who interpret "CHINA CRAP" as Chinese people and think that the subsequent "THEY" naturally stand for Chinese people. In contrast, I think "CHINA CRAP" refers to poor-quality products made in China and "THEY" stands possibly for the Chinese government or the business people who make money out of producing and selling those poor-quality products from China. Could "CHINA CRAP" in this context, or in any other context, refer to Chinese people in general? Does the text convey a clear meaning or is it really a clever play of the words aiming at attacking Chinese people in general?
 

SoothingDave

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"China crap" would be low quality, inferior goods made in China. "They" would be the rulers of China, and Chinese businesses. Which is the same people.
 

Skrej

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You are correct, it's a reference to poorly made or dangerous goods. You can read 'China Crap' as 'Chinese Crap'.

As you said, 'they' refers to either the Chinese government or the business, for not implementing higher quality control standards.

I suppose you could also interpret it as the workers not having any pride in their product. The 'if you are offended by this..' comment probably is directed more towards individual Chinese immigrants, since presumably they would be the ones offended.

That last line also carries a meaning that if you're not outraged by all this, you aren't a loyal Canadian, regardless of your nationality.
 

Eckaslike

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My feeling of it is exactly per your interpretation.

To me, it is a totally straightforward, and very direct, message saying buy Canadian first and be proud to be in Canada, albeit not in a very nice way.

I would say that in the context shown, "Crap" here has nothing whatsoever to do with the Chinese people, and totally refers to the goods being exported from there which the writer believes threaten Canadian jobs and livelihoods.

In think that, the "they" in the sentence "They poisoned their own people for profits" has to refer to the Government or leaders, otherwise if it referred to the Chinese people themselves it would have the rather nonsensical meaning that the Chinese people all poisoned themselves! In which case there wouldn't be any Chinese people left.

I can see why people might be upset by it, and there are better ways of raising issues than to drive round with messages on trucks, but actually when it comes to real racism, I think there are far worse things to worry about than this particular message.

I agree with Skrej that if there is a "sting in the tail" it is in the comment "If you are offended by this....".

As I said, that's my view. Others may have different opinions about it.
 
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Matthew Wai

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oldbei

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Thank you for your replies.

In the message, the word "CRAP" is used as an uncountable noun, isn't it? So, grammatically, it is impossible to use "THEY" to stand for "CHINA CRAP," unless the author made a grammatical mistake, right?
 

oldbei

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Skrej

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Thank you for your replies.

In the message, the word "CRAP" is used as an uncountable noun, isn't it? So, grammatically, it is impossible to use "THEY" to stand for "CHINA CRAP," unless the author made a grammatical mistake, right?

Yes, that's correct. The pronoun for crap would be 'it'.

In regards to post #8, you can call somebody 'a piece of crap', but you can't really use crap to refer to people directly.
 
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Matthew Wai

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Well, they would argue it is only one of the possible definitions. Don't we use the word "crap" to refer to people sometimes?
I think you can simply tell them that 'crap' cannot refer to humans, but I am not a teacher.
 

Eckaslike

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I think part the problem is the fact that the message is really a series of sentences without punctuation. So, the "they" isn't even in the same sentence as the "China Crap" bit.

I think we naturally put in punctuation, like full stops and commas, when reading slogans like this. To most English readers it would probably read something like my version in green on the right. :



Original
SAY NO TO CHINA CRAP xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Say no to rubbish products from China.
THEY POISONED THEIR OWN PEOPLE FOR PROFITS [As they, the Chinese leaders, have poisoned their own people for profits,
DO YOU THINK THEY CARE ABOUT US? xxxxxxxxxxxxdo you think they care about us?

PROTECT OURSELVES AND OUR ECONOMY xxxxxxxx [Protect ourselves and our economy.

IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY THIS YOU SHOULD NOT BE IN THIS COUNTRY [If you are offended by this you should not be in this xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcountry.

Punctuation can be very important sometimes.
 
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Matthew Wai

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As they, the Chinese leaders, poisoned their own people for profits,
I think Chinese businesses instead of Chinese leaders would do so, but I am not a teacher.
 

Eckaslike

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I agree Matthew,

I used the word "leaders" in two senses; business and political. I think the writer's implication is that both sets of people with power must have allowed it to happen. But yes, the direct pollution would have been by businesses.
 

oldbei

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I think part the problem is the fact that the message is really a series of sentences without punctuation. So, the "they" isn't even in the same sentence as the "China Crap" bit.

... ...


Hi Eckaslike,

You have prompted me to think about a question I have been meaning to ask: can we use a pronoun to represent someone or something outside the paragraph in which the pronoun is?

In the message, the word "THEY" represent some people who are not even mentioned in the context. The interpretation of the word relies on our understanding of the current world affairs.

I've checked some dictionaries and understand that sometimes "they" could mean people in general as in "they say that we are too young to love," but none of the dictionaries says the meaning of the word could be based on common understanding.

Regards,

oldbei
 

oldbei

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I think you can simply tell them that 'crap' cannot refer to humans, but I am not a teacher.

Thank you, Matthew, for your suggestion and that is what I will do.
 

Eckaslike

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Hi Oldbei,

Firstly, I should stress that I am just a speaker of English not a teacher. I will always defer to the experts here on matters of grammar, punctuation and the like.

Context in English is very important, as it probably is in most languages. Therefore, you will sometimes find inferred meanings in sentences, sometimes even meanings which the original writer didn't notice, or think of. I think pronouns might occasionally be used to refer back to previous paragraphs, but more frequently to preceding sentences. This depends on the context and the flow of meaning conveyed by the words. If you think of a story, often the narrator will refer back to something that has happened previously in the story - you hold all that has happened up to that point in the story in your head, so it still makes sense.

On the surface, "they" in the the second line of the "rant" appears as if it is not being used in any context. However, the meaning of "they" is implied by the writer and inferred by the reader. The writer gives us just enough words to make sense of the message they are trying to convey, and we infer the meaning of those words to obtain what we think is a full understanding. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/infer .

I think that is why pronouns can sometimes use confusion. We were always taught to use a proper noun, if possible, where any confusion might be caused by having "she", or "he" etc, twice in a sentence to refer to two or more people. That always puts me in mind of the old phrase "Who's "she", the cat's mother!", used to mildly tell someone off for saying "she" instead of using someone's proper name. The inference being that "she" could refer to any woman.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/who's_'she',_the_cat's_mother?

However, as Skrej pointed out in his posting, the pronoun for "Crap" would have to be "it", not "they". And substituting "they" for "it" in the second line doesn't work at all. That is why first language speakers naturally, mentally, put a full stop in at points like that.

The original words sound a bit like a rant, and so it may not be the most carefully phrased message in the world anyway!
 
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Tdol

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I've checked some dictionaries and understand that sometimes "they" could mean people in general as in "they say that we are too young to love," but none of the dictionaries says the meaning of the word could be based on common understanding.


OK, but dictionaries cannot account for every possible usage. Ask who did the poisoning, and that will answer who they are in this context. It's the businesses and the authorities who allowed them to do it, and the focus would be on those in charge and positions of responsibility in both areas as it's not the individual workers and minor civil servants who are responsible for the pollution. However, I doubt that the writer put a lot of thought into it before choosing the pronoun. I doubt that they care that much- it's meant to be provocative.
 

SoothingDave

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I agree Matthew,

I used the word "leaders" in two senses; business and political. I think the writer's implication is that both sets of people with power must have allowed it to happen. But yes, the direct pollution would have been by businesses.

I am not so sure there are actually two sets of people in China with power. "They" is the people that run things, including businesses and government.
 

Matthew Wai

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I used the word "leaders" in two senses; business and political. I think the writer's implication is that both sets of people with power must have allowed it to happen.
I think the political leaders have not allowed it to happen but have not worked hard enough to prevent it.
 
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