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    #1

    Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    There is an endless battle going on between the two forms, and I observe several other instances. It doesn't matter whether I bypass these altogether. Fools carry on with the debate, and this might cost someone his job when he receives poor marks for these. The best would say that it would be the best if you don't take those exams that ask such silly questions. But still the battle rages on ...
    • I am older than he is or him
    • It's me or it's I
    • It's them or it's they
    • It is I who am here or It is me who is here


    People who engage in these battles miss out on the real motive to learn a language. It's about communication. So long as English is easier than other languages without pitfalls people will learn English. That was why English became accepted in the first place, not German (which has more queer rules, like Hindi and Sanskrit).

    People who engage in pointless pursuit do a great disservice to the language.

    In India there is a Board called Karnataka Board that engages in such pointless pursuits.

    People like these guys follow the faux rule that silence is approval. It's like, "God I want to kill him. Do you approve?" When met with silence goes ahead and kills.

    I need an authoritative book which talks along these lines. I am really sick of this Karnataka Board that wishes to screw my daughter's head!
    Last edited by bkpsusmitaa; 27-Aug-2015 at 05:20. Reason: word absent

  1. Raymott's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    "So long as English is easier than other languages without pitfalls people will learn English. That was why English became accepted in the first place, not German."

    Surely you're not looking for a book that would make such ill-informed remarks, are you? In the case of India, English has become accepted partly because India was colonised by Britain, not Germany. Britain also had an empire, and left its language all over the world to develop into various varieties. Besides, German is not that much more difficult than English, if at all - though I take your point about Sanskrit.
    Last edited by Barb_D; 27-Aug-2015 at 17:53. Reason: Minor typo

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    #3

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    The reality is that rules about subjective and objective pronouns are simple enough but in practice, they are often not followed or taken seriously, even among natives.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #4

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    Surely you're not looking for a book that would make such ill-informed remarks, are you?
    No, I am looking for just the opposite, an authoritative book (or a list of books) that speaks against these, and in general, about the agreement (condord) of verbs with subjects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    Besides, German is not that much more difficult than English, if at all - though I take your point about Sanskrit.
    Yes, it is! My daughter took German for two years, and she says that there are different rules for "ordinary you", "friendly you" and "respectable you" in addition to genders, just like it is for Sanskrit and Hindi. In the last two, you have different verb forms for genders, and complex rules for Agreements/Concords.

    And regarding, "...and left it's language all over the world...", 'it's' will be 'its' . You may like to amend that. [no longer relevant, Raymott's post has been corrected since] I commit such mistakes every now and then, but when I go over my writings after some days the mistakes there keep barking until I correct them.

    My mother tongue, Bangla, also has the three(3) different forms of You but it is totally free from the gender problems.

    English is the best of all that I have surveyed, only that its phonetics is queer, the proverbial Go & Do, may have been introduced by the second standardisation of the language. Had English been vernacular, like Bangla, it would have been the World's best language.

    English is my favourite, not because the British ruled over us and we have that colonial/slave mentality, but because it is very easy to speak (can be difficult to write, conflicts with phonetics).
    Last edited by bkpsusmitaa; 29-Aug-2015 at 09:50. Reason: Raymott's post amended

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    #5

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedmc View Post
    The reality is that rules about subjective and objective pronouns are simple enough but in practice, they are often not followed or taken seriously, even among natives.
    I honour your intent to discuss the issue at length, and will do so, as soon as I have found authoritative source(s) that discuss the subject and the issue in general at length. For the time being I would request members not to post anything that would divert addressing my request, other than with a list of authoritative books on the English Language that speaks on the issue.

    I have one, A Comprehensive Grammar Of The English Language, edited by Randolph Quirk, Sidney Greenbaum, et al. It is there in article 10.44, Concord of Person.

    I need some more. I need to screw the Karnataka Board back.
    Last edited by bkpsusmitaa; 27-Aug-2015 at 07:23. Reason: words missing, sentence restructured

  2. tkacka15's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    See Practical English Usage by Michael Swan, entry 135: case (I and me, who and whom, etc).

  3. Piscean's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bkpsusmitaa View Post
    I honour your intent to discuss the issue at length, and will do so, as soon as I have found authoritative source(s) that discuss the subject and the issue in general at length. For the time being I would request members not to post anything that would divert addressing my request, other than with a list of authoritative books on the English Language that speaks on the issue.
    When you make such subjective claims as "So long as English is easier than other languages without pitfalls people will learn English. That was why English became accepted in the first place, not German (which has more queer rules, like Hindi and Sanskrit)", "English is the best of all" and "In India there is a Board called Karnataka Board that engages in such pointless pursuits", you can hardly object if members address these.

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    #8

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tkacka15 View Post
    ... Practical English Usage ... Michael Swan ...
    Thank you!

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    #9

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    I am older than he is or him- I would say the jury is out on this, and there is also the possibility, though less common, of simply using he instead of he is. However, him is the most common.
    It's me or it's I- In all honesty, I haven't heard anyone say It is I in decades. It sounds very ancient schoolmarm to me, and I am well into my middle age (British English speaker). With the contraction, it is moving into the territory of the weird.
    It's them or it's they- Same as above
    It is I who am here or It is me who is here- Optional, but I would say that I think the me form is winning, and I would guess overwhelmingly in BrE.

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    #10

    Re: Authority References: It's me or It's I ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I am older than ... I would guess overwhelmingly in BrE.
    My dear editor, I am sorry not to have explained myself better, but didn't want an opinion. I simply avoid those pitfalls My using English has everything to do with ease of use, very few rules, and I do avoid the usual pitfalls. Regarding writing a non-phonetic language I let my subconscious memory and online dictionary take care of the work.

    Now, what I wanted was references, and still more references.

    I know you are very busy, so I would like to reduce your responsibility towards me, a newbie, by asking you about references and more references.

    And assuming you are eager to have a heart-warming conversation, why don't we do it by Personal Messaging?

    Please do send me a PM and we could chat.

    And please don't forget to send me references and more references - Article/item no. and all, like tkacka15, who informed me about Practical English Usage, by Michael Swan, entry 135: case (I and me, who and whom, etc).

    It was so nice of you to try and help. I respect your intent.

    Regards

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