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    #1

    Grammar

    Dear teachers,

    I have four questions:

    No.1

    If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you______.
    a. will succeed b. will have succeeded
    c. would succeed d. would have succeeded

    The key is 'b'. I don't know why. Could you please explain it to me?

    No.2

    I visualized ____ I wanted to be, ______ kind of player I wanted to become, I knew exactly where I wanted to go, and I focused on getting there.
    a. where, what b. who, what
    The key is 'a'. My question is : Why isn't 'b' correct?

    No.3

    Only those who risk_____ far can possibly find out how far one can go.
    a. going too b. going so
    The key is 'a'. Is 'b' possible?

    No.4

    You never find yourself ________ you face the truth.

    a. until b. unless

    The key is 'a'. I don't understand why 'b' isn't correct.
    I think both are correct. But the meanings are different. Is that so?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang

  1. Casiopea's Avatar

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    #2

    Re: Grammar

    Gee, they're not easy, are they?

    No.1
    If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you will have succeeded in what you were trying to accomplish.
    => Two events: (1) care for someone else, then (2) succeed.

    No.2
    ?I visualized who I wanted to be, what kind of player I wanted to become
    => 'who I wanted to be' is somewhat redundant in that context. It's another way of saying, what kind of person I wanted to be.


    No.3
    ?Only those who risk going so far can possibly find out how far one can go.
    => 'so far' is up to a certain point, whereas 'too far' is extends beyond that point.

    No.4 (try adding 'will')
    You will never find yourself unless you face the truth.
    => You won't find yourself unless you face the truth.

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    #3

    Re: Grammar


    Dear Cas,

    Thank you so much for your help.
    I still feel confused.


    No.1
    If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you will have succeeded in what you were trying to accomplish.
    => Two events: (1) care for someone else, then (2) succeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Gee, they're not easy, are they?
    Do you mean it is subjunctive mood? Then it should be:
    If you had found it in your heart to care for somebody else, you would have succeeded.

    No.2
    I visualized who I wanted to be, what kind of player I wanted to become
    => 'who I wanted to be' is somewhat redundant in that context. It's another way of saying, what kind of person I wanted to be.
    According to the original sentence 'I visualized where I wanted to be, what kind of palyer I wanted to become....'
    What does the word 'where' mean?

    No.4 (try adding 'will')
    You will never find yourself unless you face the truth.
    => You won't find yourself unless you face the truth.
    Did you mean 'unless' is the correct answer? The key is 'until'. What's wrong with that key/

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang



    No.1
    If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you will have succeeded in what you were trying to accomplish.
    => Two events: (1) care for someone else, then (2) succeed.

    No.2
    ?I visualized who I wanted to be, what kind of player I wanted to become
    => 'who I wanted to be' is somewhat redundant in that context. It's another way of saying, what kind of person I wanted to be.


    No.3
    ?Only those who risk going so far can possibly find out how far one can go.
    => 'so far' is up to a certain point, whereas 'too far' is extends beyond that point.

    No.4 (try adding 'will')
    You will never find yourself unless you face the truth.
    => You won't find yourself unless you face the truth.[/quote]

  2. Casiopea's Avatar

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    #4

    Re: Grammar

    Let's have tdol and MrP come take a look-see at No.1.

    "unless" doesn't work for No.4 - unless, that is, you add in 'will', like this,

    No.4 (b) (try adding 'will')
    You will never find yourself unless you face the truth.

    Original
    No.4 (a)
    You never find yourself until you face the truth.

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    #5

    Re: Grammar

    Hello Cas, hello Jiang

    Here's my 2p-worth on #1...

    It seems to me that at the moment when we accomplish something, we use the present perfect and say we "have succeeded", e.g.

    1. I am standing at the top of the hill. I have succeeded in climbing the hill.

    On the other hand, "I am succeeding" is what we say as we climb the hill.

    So "succeeding" (the present progressive) is the process of attaining a desired end; "having succeeded" (present perfect) is the state of having attained a desired end.

    In the example sentence, we want to express the state, not the process:

    2. You care for someone else. Therefore you have succeeded in X.

    To create the "if" version, we move it all into a hypothetical future. The present tense remains the same, because the present tense can carry future meaning; but the present perfect becomes a future perfect:

    3. If you find it in your heart to care for someone else, you will have succeeded in X.

    MrP

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    #6

    Re: Grammar


    Dear MrPedantic,

    Thank you very much for your explanation. Could you please explain why 'will succeed' isn't correct? It is also a future tense.

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedantic
    Hello Cas, hello Jiang

    Here's my 2p-worth on #1...

    It seems to me that at the moment when we accomplish something, we use the present perfect and say we "have succeeded", e.g.

    1. I am standing at the top of the hill. I have succeeded in climbing the hill.

    On the other hand, "I am succeeding" is what we say as we climb the hill.

    So "succeeding" (the present progressive) is the process of attaining a desired end; "having succeeded" (present perfect) is the state of having attained a desired end.

    In the example sentence, we want to express the state, not the process:

    2. You care for someone else. Therefore you have succeeded in X.

    To create the "if" version, we move it all into a hypothetical future. The present tense remains the same, because the present tense can carry future meaning; but the present perfect becomes a future perfect:

    3. If you find it in your heart to care for someone else, you will have succeeded in X.

    MrP

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    #7

    Re: Grammar

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang

    Could you please explain why 'will succeed' isn't correct? It is also a future tense.
    It would have a different meaning. 'Will have succeeded' suggests that once you have had the feeling, than the success will be complete. Yourversion with the future simple, suggests that success will follow on from finding it in your heart, making it a step towards success and not success itself.

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    #8

    Re: Grammar

    &
    Dear tdol,

    Thank you very muc for your explanation.
    Could you please explain how can we know when the sentece means 'in my heart' and 'the success will be complete' when we make our choice in the exam?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    It would have a different meaning. 'Will have succeeded' suggests that once you have had the feeling, than the success will be complete. Yourversion with the future simple, suggests that success will follow on from finding it in your heart, making it a step towards success and not success itself.

  3. Casiopea's Avatar

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    #9

    Re: Grammar

    Future
    EX: If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you will succeed.

    The situation is real. It refers to a possible condition and its probable result. It is based on fact, and it is used to make statements about the real world, and about particular situations.

    Future Perfect
    EX: "If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you will have succeeded." - a famous quote by Maya Angelou

    The future perfect refers to a completed action in the future. When we use this tense we are projecting ourselves forward into the future (i.e., will succeed) and looking back at an action ... which is why "have" is needed: will have succeeded. The action looked back on will be completed some time later than now.

    Hope that helps.

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    #10

    Re: Grammar


    Dear Cas,

    Oh, I see. Many thanks!

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Future
    EX: If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you will succeed.

    The situation is real. It refers to a possible condition and its probable result. It is based on fact, and it is used to make statements about the real world, and about particular situations.

    Future Perfect
    EX: "If you find it in your heart to care for somebody else, you will have succeeded." - a famous quote by Maya Angelou

    The future perfect refers to a completed action in the future. When we use this tense we are projecting ourselves forward into the future (i.e., will succeed) and looking back at an action ... which is why "have" is needed: will have succeeded. The action looked back on will be completed some time later than now.

    Hope that helps.

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