[Grammar] It has been discovered or It is discovered

[cyrusevilming]

An exercise about grammar provides some news headlines to be rewritten in passive way.

1. Water Discovered on Mars
Model answer: It has been discovered there is water on Mars.

2. Terrorist believed to be operating in Berlin
Model answer: It is believed that terrorists are operating in Berlin.

But why can't the first and second examples be rewritten as "It is/was discovered there is water on Mars." and "It has been believed that terrorists are operating in Berlin.". In this case, please advise what kind of rule should be followed so that I can use these tenses precisely. Thanks.

 

[Tdol]

I would use Water has been discovered on Mars rather than the model answer. The discovery is a fairly recent one, which is why the present perfect is used rather then the past simple. You only discover someone once, so the present simple doesn't work for me.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I agree with Tdol about the first. For the second, I suggest "Terrorists are believed to be operating in Berlin." I am not sure where the model sentences came from but they are needlessly complicated.

 

[Raymott]

There's a subtle difference between the sentences.
What has been discovered - Water (on Mars) or that there is water on Mars?
I'm still not sure whether they are claiming the first based on the second. If they have discovered a situation which can only come about if water has been present, does this mean they've discovered water?

 

[MikeNewYork]

For me it is a distinction without a difference.

 

[MikeNewYork]

That hardly works for Mars. One would not know what is needed for healthy plants on Mars.

 

[MikeNewYork]

If one discovers water on Mars, there is water on Mars. If one discovers that there is water on Mars, one has likely found water on Mars. The rest of this "nuance" argument is all speculation and hypothesis. it serves no purpose.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I won't ignore it. I will comment on it. You can control what you write, but you can't control what other people write. The students deserve to hear both sides. Most speakers spend no time worrying about the alleged nuance in what they write and say.

 

[Matthew Wai]

If I see merely some healthy-looking plants growing, I have not discovered water, but I have discovered that there is water.

Would it be more accurate to say 'I think that there is water' as it is a speculation based on your knowledge?

Most speakers spend no time worrying about the alleged nuance in what they write and say.

I am one of them.

 

[MikeNewYork]

When it comes to Mars, "speculation" is a good word.

 

[Roman55]

I am one of them.

I am not a teacher.

What do you mean, Matthew? You're someone who spends no time worrying about the alleged nuance in what you write and say, or one of those that do?

 

[cyrusevilming]

Thank you for your advices answering my question. Actually, it is better for me to state clearly that both sentences and model answers were quoted from Advance Grammar In Use – 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Edition in unit 25, Reporting with passive. (The Author - Martin Hewings)

An example and suggested answer are provided as follows:
“Agreement that UN will send in troops”
“It has been agreed that the UN will send in troops”

I understand that I should not be confined to rewrite a sentence in such single way and “Terrorists are believed to be operating in Berlin” is one of my rewritten sentence before checking the model answer. However, after checking the model answer, it should be rewritten as the quoted format. I want to find out what's wrong with my answer and whether my answer is possibly correct or not. That’s why I would like to know the fundamental rule that I should follow for the formation of sentence without grammatical mistake.

 

[MikeNewYork]

In English there are many ways to rewrite sentences to convey the same message. In my view, model sentences should be taken as suggestions, not mandates.

 

[Matthew Wai]

What do you mean, Matthew?

I mean the following:

You're someone who spends no time worrying about the alleged nuance in what you write and say

 

[Tdol]

There's a subtle difference between the sentences.
What has been discovered - Water (on Mars) or that there is water on Mars?
I'm still not sure whether they are claiming the first based on the second. If they have discovered a situation which can only come about if water has been present, does this mean they've discovered water?

That's a good point, but they have actually found water, albeit as ice, haven't they?

 

[MikeNewYork]

I believe they have.

 

[Rover_KE]

Thank you for your advice Actually, it is better for me to state clearly that both sentences and model answers were quoted from Advance Grammar In Use – 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Edition in unit 25, Reporting with passive. (The Author - Martin Hewings)

Cyrus, in future posts please give the source and author of your quoted text in post #1 rather than #15. Thank you.

 

[Raymott]

That's a good point, but they have actually found water, albeit as ice, haven't they?

Well, most of us (not Mike, to whom it apparently makes no difference) would be able to answer that if NASA were more specific in their reporting (though it could be science reporters who are at fault). I don't know. I would not like to say that they have discovered water on Mars on the basis of what I've read; but neither have I gone looking for what they actually did discover.

 

[MikeNewYork]

https://www.google.com/search?q=ice...hrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q="ice+on+mars+found"

 

[Raymott]

https://www.google.com/search?q=ice...hrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q="ice+on+mars+found"

OK, there's ice on Mars. As I said, I didn't go looking for the evidence because it's not going to change my life appreciably. But it's interesting, even if it doesn't change the importance of nuance.