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    #1

    that

    Hi,

    I have a question about the two "that":

    1)
    -Is the avatar an image of yourself? (one used a cartoon image as his avatar)
    -The avatar is not a drawing nor caricature of me. I first used this image that I found on a google image search for my Facebook Page.

    2)
    I am listening to a song popular these days that is from a TV show in China.

    Can I use "which" in both cases? I think the first sentence with the "that" is weird, do you agree?

    Thanks a lot





  1. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: that

    In sentence one, it is a non-defining clause. It should have "which". There should be a comma after "image" and after "search".

    In sentence two, the clause appears to be defining. Therefore, "that" or "which" is possible.

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    #3

    Re: that

    Do you mean that the first sentence should be like this, Mike, By the way, thanks a lot:

    I first used this image, which I found on a google image search, for my Facebook Page.

    So the "that" in the first sentence is incorrect?
    Last edited by Silverobama; 19-Nov-2015 at 06:39.

  2. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: that

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverobama View Post
    So the "that" in the first sentence is incorrect?
    I would not use 'that' in a non-defining clause, but some may accept 'that'. See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    Huddleston and Pullum (The Cambridge Grammar of Modern English, 2002.1025) say that who and which are normally (my emphasis) used in non-restrictive clause, but add that some speakers do accept that. I use who and which, but accept that.The original sentence, with that in a non-restrictive clause, did not strike me as strange.
    I am not a teacher.

  3. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: that

    Yes, you have the sentence correct.
    Yes, I consider "that" incorrect. Most do.

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    #6

    Re: that

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    I would not use 'that' in a non-defining clause, but some may accept 'that'. See below.
    Not many do, and few of them are examiners.

  4. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: that

    Piscean might be among the few of them.
    I am not a teacher.

  5. Piscean's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: that

    I have already said "I would not use 'that' in a non-defining clause, but some may accept 'that'". I certainly would not recommend that learners use it. However, as I have said, I don't find it strange, and I wouldn't call it incorrect or particularly unnatural, particularly in conversation.


    Last edited by Piscean; 19-Nov-2015 at 12:58. Reason: typo

  6. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: that

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    I have already said "I would not use 'that' in a non-defining clause, but some may accept 'that'".
    If I recall correctly, you have not written that sentence, which was written by me in my post#4 above.
    I am not a teacher.

  7. Piscean's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: that

    Whatever.

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