[Grammar] that

[Silverobama]

Hi,

I have a question about the two "that":

1)
-Is the avatar an image of yourself? (one used a cartoon image as his avatar)
-The avatar is not a drawing nor caricature of me. I first used this image that I found on a google image search for my Facebook Page.

2)
I am listening to a song popular these days that is from a TV show in China.

Can I use "which" in both cases? I think the first sentence with the "that" is weird, do you agree?

Thanks a lot

 

[MikeNewYork]

In sentence one, it is a non-defining clause. It should have "which". There should be a comma after "image" and after "search".

In sentence two, the clause appears to be defining. Therefore, "that" or "which" is possible.

 

[Silverobama]

Do you mean that the first sentence should be like this, Mike, By the way, thanks a lot:

I first used this image, which I found on a google image search, for my Facebook Page.

So the "that" in the first sentence is incorrect?

 

[Matthew Wai]

So the "that" in the first sentence is incorrect?

I would not use 'that' in a non-defining clause, but some may accept 'that'. See below.

Huddleston and Pullum (The Cambridge Grammar of Modern English, 2002.1025) say that who and which are normally (my emphasis) used in non-restrictive clause, but add that some speakers do accept that. I use who and which, but accept that.The original sentence, with that in a non-restrictive clause, did not strike me as strange.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes, you have the sentence correct.
Yes, I consider "that" incorrect. Most do.

 

[Tdol]

I would not use 'that' in a non-defining clause, but some may accept 'that'. See below.

Not many do, and few of them are examiners. ;-)

 

[Matthew Wai]

Piscean might be among the few of them.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I have already said "I would not use 'that' in a non-defining clause, but some may accept 'that'".

If I recall correctly, you have not written that sentence, which was written by me in my post#4 above.

 

[Tdol]

I wouldn't call it incorrect or particularly unnatural, particularly in conversation.

That's a good point- in the world of spoken language, with no commas, things are much less clear.