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    #31

    Re: Object Complement?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonkhlim View Post
    ''My supervisor considers his least favorite duty dealing with customers.''
    ...
    Are they adjectival phrases?
    *** Not A Teacher ***

    From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/consider ,
    the definition of "consider" in your sentence is "(2) to think or deem to be; regard as", which has nouns (liberal) or adjective phrases (essential) as object complement.

    From "A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language" p.1200,
    "dealing with customers" is the prepositional complement of "as" in the prepositional verb "consider ...as", where "as" is an optional preposition.




    Last edited by twlost; 30-Nov-2015 at 14:39.

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    #32

    Re: Object Complement?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    One of my favorite books [...]Pence and Emery, A Grammar of Present-Day English (1947).
    I have not contributed to this thread, as I have no expertise in the area of the labelling of complements. However, I feel, as several people have said in other threads, that the ideas of a person writing nearly 70 years ago don't help us much with what is being taught today

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    #33

    Re: Object Complement?

    Quote Originally Posted by twlost View Post
    From "A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language" p.1200,
    "dealing with customers" is the prepositional complement of "as" in the prepositional verb "consider ...as", where "as" is an optional preposition.
    No. Quirk et al call adjective phrases after consider (with or without as) prepositional object complements. If an -ing form is used instead of, or before, the adjective phrase, they say we now have a nominal -ing clause.

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    #34

    Re: Object Complement?

    *** Not A Teacher ***

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    No. Quirk et al call adjective phrases after consider (with or without as) prepositional object complements. If an -ing form is used instead of, or before, the adjective phrase, they say we now have a nominal -ing clause.
    (1) Quirk et al list 4 different complementation types for the verb "consider": B3,C1,C2,C4. (p.1196)

    (2) "
    Following a complex transitive verb and a direct object, the prepositional complement of as functions semantically as an attribute, and may be termed a 'prepositional object complement' in the same way as the noun phrase following a transitive prepositional verb is called a prepositional object:
    ...
    Consider as,like regard as,class as, etc, therefore exemplifies yet another type of prepositional verb: one that is followed by a prepositional object complement rather than a prepositional object." (p.1200)

    (3) Nominal -ing clause may function as
    prepositional complement. (p.1063)


    Last edited by twlost; 30-Nov-2015 at 23:14.

  5. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #35

    Re: Object Complement?

    I have never heard the term "prepositional complement" and I hope to never see it again. It is an example of new terminology just for the sake of new terminology.

  6. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #36

    Re: Object Complement?

    Quote Originally Posted by twlost View Post
    "dealing with customers" is the prepositional complement of "as" in the prepositional verb "consider ...as", where "as" is an optional preposition.
    I consider 'dealing with customers' to be the object of the preposition 'as', and I consider 'to be' more natural than 'as' after 'consider'.

    Quote Originally Posted by twlost View Post
    Nominal -ing clause may function as prepositional complement.
    I consider it a gerund phrase acting as the object of a preposition.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #37

    Re: Object Complement?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    I have never heard the term "prepositional complement" and I hope to never see it again. It is an example of new terminology just for the sake of new terminology.
    Well, the idea of prepositional compliments has been around for more than thirty years, and is, for many, a useful label for certain types of expression.

    Few writers come up with terminology just for the sake of it. The terminology has changed throughout time as grammarians have tried to find ever more effective ways of describing how the language works. Some new terms have served their purpose well and are still used centuries after they were first used; some have fallen by the wayside. In my teaching lifetime, such now universally accepted terms as modal (verb) and determiner have been introduced, and others, such as noun phrase have taken on new meanings.

    The problem for those of us who are no longer in the first flush of youth is that we we have a tendency to think that any change in the terminology we studies at school is a change for the worse.

    TheParser ha a great respect for Curme (1931); I grew up with Jespersen (1911-1949, Zandvoort (1948) and Hornby (1954), and was still young/interested enough to be excited by Quirk et al (1985). I was nearing the end of my full-time teaching career when Huddleston and Pullum published their grammar in 2002, and it has taken me longer to get my head round their ideas. My advanced age and slowing brain make me reluctant to accept some of their ideas and terminology, but I have to admit that much of what they suggest throws light on how the language really work.

    Grammarians for more than thirty years have had access to increasingly effective corpora, while earlier grammarians had to rely on their own intuition and what they (and their research assistants) could get round to reading. This increase in knowledge has led to an increase in understanding, and some at least of the new terminology reflects this.

    In what year and/or with which writer would you like to freeze terminology?

  8. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #38

    Re: Object Complement?

    As far as I know, a preposition is a monofunctional part of speech. It takes a prepositional object. Once a prepositional phrase is created it can function in more than one way. A complement completes the word it refers to. The prepositional object does that. So prepositional complement is a meaningless phrase for me. If you like it, keep it, but it adds nothing to our understanding of prepositions. I would like to freeze terminology when it is not useful except for giving academics something to publish.

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    #39

    Re: Object Complement?

    The more terminology, the more confused learners like me are.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #40

    Re: Object Complement?

    English is getting to be as bad as business with its jargon.

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