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Thread: Verb or verbal?

  1. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #21

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    Funny you should mention Michael Swan. I have disagreed with him on a number of occasions.

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    #22

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    I am with Piscean on this- I see verb at the head of the family and infinitive as a subset.

    I don't really disagree with that. That means that an infinitive is not a verb. I see "verb" at the head of the family and verbals as subsets. They include infinitives and participles.
    The subsets of verbs include finite and non-finite ('verbals' as you would say) forms. Either both are verbs or, if you wish to look it another way, neither are verbs but merely subsets. You can't really say that finite forms are verbs but non-finite forms are not.

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    #23

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    Funny you should mention Michael Swan. I have disagreed with him on a number of occasions.
    That does not surprise me at all, given the views you express about virtually everybody who is acknowledged as having written something useful in the ELT/TEFL/TESOL world.

    Most teachers, teacher-trainers and learners who discover Practical English Usage find it invaluable for its clear, concise, simple and accurate explanations. It has been continually in print since the first edition appeared in 1980 (it's now in its 3rd edition), and has sold over two million copies. It is on the required reading list for both Cambridge CELTA and Trinity Cert TESOL training courses.

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    #24

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    I am with Piscean on this- I see verb at the head of the family and infinitive as a subset.

    I don't really disagree with that. That means that an infinitive is not a verb. I see "verb" at the head of the family and verbals as subsets. They include infinitives and participles.
    Not to me- if you put furniture at the top of the tree, a table is a subset, but it is still furniture.

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    #25

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    So that means that Swan is infallible? I think not. He is good, but not perfect.

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    #26

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    "You can't really say that finite forms are verbs but non-finite forms are not."

    Of course I can.

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    #27

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    So that means that Swan is infallible? I think not. He is good, but not perfect.
    Nobody has said that Swan is infallible, and nobody has said that he is perfect.

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    #28

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    =MikeNewYork;1207431. I see "verb" at the head of the family and verbals as subsets.
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    "You can't really say that finite forms are verbs but non-finite forms are not."

    Of course I can.
    So members of a subset of a set are not members of that set.


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    #29

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    What I meant was a verbal is not a verb. It is like a partial verb, lacking some verb features.

    You call them nonfinite verbs. I call them verbals. The rest is just simply terminology.

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    #30

    Re: Verb or verbal?

    Partial verbs?

    The thot plickens. What next, total verbs, impartial verbs?

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