Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Armenian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 2,554
    #1

    just as his father played the trumpet

    1) As his father played the trumpet, he played the piano.
    2) Just as his father played the trumpet, he played the piano.
    3) Just as his father played the trumpet, so he played the piano.

    Which of the above correspond to which of the below:

    a) He played the pianothe same way his father played the trumpet.
    b)
    He played the piano because his father played the trumpet.
    c) He played the piano while his father played the trumpet.
    d) He played the piano and his father played the trumpet.

    I am not sure about this at all.

    I would say
    1 corresponds to 'b' and 'c'
    2 corresponds to 'd'
    3 corresponds to 'a'

    Gratefully,
    Navi.

  1. Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 3,596
    #2

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Hi, Navi! What does your teacher say?
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Armenian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 2,554
    #3

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Thank you, Charlie,

    I really don't have a teacher. My high school years are way behind me. These questions are too hard to be given even to advanced learners of English. I doubt that you will find any book with such questions in them.

    But I did give a list of what I deemed to be correct replies in the bottom of my question, lest people should think that I have not taken a shot at answering my question.

    I don't know how I can prove to you that my questions are not school exercises. Maybe the fact that I have made well over 2000 posts should suffice. How long do you think I have been in high school?

    I am just obsessed with the fine points of English grammar. That's all. No teachers.

    Gratefully,
    Navi.

  2. Piscean's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Czech Republic
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 10,007
    #4

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Quote Originally Posted by navi tasan View Post
    These questions are too hard to be given even to advanced learners of English. I doubt that you will find any book with such questions in them.
    Quite. One of the reasons that I rarely participate in the many threads that you and azz have started here and in other forums is that, while many of the potential ambiguities you ask about are real, most native speakers just would not be aware of them. By the way, I am not criticising your questions. You have every right to follow up your interests.

    ps. Note to others. navi and azz do not post the same question in more than one forum, so they do not waste members' time.
    I don't know how I can prove to you that my questions are not school exercises.
    You have no need. Old hands here and elsewhere know that your questions reflect your personal interest in this area.
    Last edited by Piscean; 07-May-2016 at 11:05. Reason: typo

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Armenian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 2,554
    #5

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Thank you very much, Piscean,

    Azz is actually my partner and she contracted the ambiguity bug from me. I am the main culprit.

    I find my own questions annoying, to tell you the truth. If they did not annoy me, I would probably not ask them! They make me anxious almost. I have found out that some native speakers find them irritating and others find them fascinating.

    I would not suggest to anyone to use them in English classes. Learners would just go nuts if they are confronted with these sentences. They seem pretty simply, but they are not. At least, that is my opinion.

    Respectfully,
    Navi.

  3. Piscean's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Czech Republic
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 10,007
    #6

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Quote Originally Posted by navi tasan View Post
    They make me anxious almost.
    Try to relax about this! Many of the great writers in English have broken just about every rule of style ever invented, usually unintentionally.

    Try to remember, too, that there are various types of rules, some of which I think of as:

    Absolutes.: Some word-order combinations are simply not possible in English. We would normally say He played (the) piano. In some varieties/dialects/registers of English, and in some contexts, It's possible to say The piano I play. No native speaker of any variety would ever say Piano (the) play I.

    Standard English absolutes: The -(e)s suffix is possible in standard English only with a third person singular subject. I plays (the) pian is not standard English, and will be considered 'incorrect' in any test or examination. However, it is natural and normal in some dialects/registers, especiall in informal conversation.

    Prescriptive absolutes. Things such as the use of the shall/will future, the subjunctive, and accusative whom, and the avoidance of split infinitives were once considered essential. Breaking the rules was a sign of lack of education. Most speakers of BrE have consigned such rules to the dustbin, though they (the rules) still have some advocates.

    Punctuation rules: There are far fewer absolute rules here than some writers of style guides seem to think. There are some absolutes, such as ending a sentence with a full stop (period) or, if appropriate, a question mark or exclamation mark. However, the rules for placement of the second of a pair of quotation marks, and for the necessity of many commas, vary from one writer of style guides, publisher's house rules to another. I have my own guidelines; I know that my editors will impose their own conventions if I publish.

    Rules about ambiguity: Careful writers try to avoid ambiguity. In careful speech and writing,Luke likes Mary more than Jane is unclear. Does Luke like Mary more than he likes Jane? or does Luke like Mary more than Jane likes Mary? A careful writer will rephrase the sentence. However, we need to remember that context often makes the intended meaning clear in informal speech and writing, and taking the time to make the meaning unabiguously clear can impede natural communication.

    In many of the sentences you and azz come up with, there is potential ambiguity, but not to an extent that would worry many native speakers. I say this to try to reduce your anxiety, not to deter you from asking questions.
    Last edited by Rover_KE; 07-May-2016 at 13:39.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 1,741
    #7

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    2) could also possibly mean both he and his father started to play their respective instruments at exactly the same time.

    3) could mean both in the same way (the same style of playing) and also similarly (they both had playing an instrument in common).

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Armenian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 2,554
    #8

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Thank you very much, Piscean,

    It helps. Every little bit help. But the anxiety will live on!

    Gratefully,
    Navi.
    Last edited by navi tasan; 07-May-2016 at 23:08.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Armenian
      • Home Country:
      • Iran
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 2,554
    #9

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Thank you very much, Jutfrank,

    I did not see your post when I posted mine. I saw it just now.

    Gratefully,
    Navi.

  4. Tarheel's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Jun 2014
    • Posts: 11,081
    #10

    Re: just as his father played the trumpet

    Navi tasan, you are one of my favorite posters, and you have been for a long time.

    As for your questions, the first one makes sense. After all, two people can certainly play two different musical instruments at the same time. However, I am not so sure about the others.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-Oct-2015, 13:55
  2. [Grammar] was FIRST played
    By elenah in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 19-Mar-2015, 01:24
  3. follow my father's foot steps or in father's footsteps
    By ostap77 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-Oct-2011, 12:16
  4. [General] to be played & will be played
    By Parviz Veer in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 26-Sep-2010, 10:13

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •