[Grammar] She enters into a wedlock with John.

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Aamir Tariq

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I would not translate Nika-Nama. I'd use the Urdu term, explaining it the first time it appears. I'd explain is as a type of prenuptial agreement which is a normal (mandatory?) aspect of a Pakistani marriage.

Our client wants us to translate the text in the US English, so we use American spellings and vocabulary while translating. So the text we translate is for the American audience. Secondly, we are told by our supervisors to use those terms that are easily understood by the average native speakers who may not be familiar with Pakistani culture, norms, vocabulary, and stuff like that, That's why they ask us to translate "Roti" as bread, because roti can be understood by those who know it is from the subcontinent but not to everybody in the US. So in that context, if I write Nika-Nama instead of prenuptial agreement it may confuse my audience. What do you think?
 

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In the end, you have to follow your supervisors' instructions or find other employment. However, to translate roti as "bread" is to produce an inaccurate translation. Would you translate bread as "roti"?

This illustrates the limits of translation. You have to consider the purpose of the work, and its target audience. If you're translating a film, you may sometimes have to write substitutions instead; a play on words or an intentional mispronuciation in the script, for example, has to be replaced with another that works in the target language. On the other hand, technical or scientific texts have to be translated faithfully no matter how many words it takes.

To reiterate and answer your question, I think you should write Nika-Nama, italicized to indicate it's a foreign word. The first time it appears, you should explain it in a sentence or two, surrounded by parentheses. Make sure that both parts should be capitalized; I'm inclined to think Nika-nama is better.
 

Aamir Tariq

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Would you translate bread as "roti"?

Yes that's what we are told to do when the text in the source language includes "roti" we are told to translate it as bread. And even when I was at school we were told that "Roti" was also bread in English back then. it doesn't work in the US but it does work here because it is colloquialism. But when we are translating for the audience abroad we have to strictly adhere to their norms to avoid any confusion.

However, an interesting thing is that a loaf of bread is called "Double Roti", in Urdu, the one that is cut into slices. We go to the bakers and asks him to give us a "Double Roti".
 

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Is there anything wrong with using roti (a type of bread) and nika-nama (a type of pre-nuptial agreement)?
 

Aamir Tariq

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Is there anything wrong with using roti (a type of bread) and nika-nama (a type of pre-nuptial agreement)?

There is nothing wrong but they are Urdu words. But when we translate them into English they should be understood by average native speakers. Like those of you who go to Asian restaurants might be familiar with "roti" not everybody else is.
 

GoesStation

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Would you translate bread as "roti"?

Yes that's what we are told to do when the text in the source language includes "roti" we are told to translate it as bread.

You are told to translate roti as "bread". I asked whether you would translate bread as "roti".

Suppose you had this text to translate into Urdu:

To make a hamburger, make a thin, round patty of ground beef about 3" in diameter. Fry the beef patty in a skillet. Put the cooked patty between two pieces of bread.

Or suppose it said "...between the two halves of a hamburger bun." If you simply translated bread and hamburger bun​ as "roti", would your reader have any idea what the English text had said?
 

BobK

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The only way wedlock is used, with very rare exceptions, is in the phrase out of wedlock. This is the term for babies whose mothers are not married at the time of birth.

That and "holy wedlock" - a phrase used in the traditional C of E marriage service.

As I think Tdol pointed out, there‘s no such thing as "a wedlock". There is however such a thing as "a headlock". - a totally different thing, I‘m told. ;-)

b
 

GoesStation

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The point is that Tdol put an explanation in brackets with each word. If you want to use only your English translation, then do so. Just be aware that it is not accurate.

In other words, if you translate nika-nama as "pre-nuptial agreement" without further explanation, your translation will be a poor one.
 

Aamir Tariq

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You are told to translate roti as "bread". I asked whether you would translate bread as "roti".

Suppose you had this text to translate into Urdu:

To make a hamburger, make a thin, round patty of ground beef about 3" in diameter. Fry the beef patty in a skillet. Put the cooked patty between two pieces of bread.

Or suppose it said "...between the two halves of a hamburger bun." If you simply translated bread and hamburger bun​ as "roti", would your reader have any idea what the English text had said?

No, when I'll translate bread into Urdu, I will translate it as a "Double Roti", which is a loaf of bread that is cut into slices, because it is already understood that "Roti" is an Asian product especially in the Indian sub-continent and probably in the far east as well. And "Roti" is not eaten as commonly in the UK, United States, Australia and other English speaking countries as it is eaten here, neither it is known as much in those countries. Yes native speakers of English are familiar with it but only those who go to the Asian restaurants or those who are familiar with the Asian cuisine. However, yes if it is written as "Roti" in the source language English then I'll certainly translate it as "roti" in Urdu.
 

Aamir Tariq

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In other words, if you translate nika-nama as "pre-nuptial agreement" without further explanation, your translation will be a poor one.

Well, we work under different layers of supervisors, our work is also checked by the native speakers of Urdu as well as native speakers of English from Australia, there is a whole team of linguists working behind this whole process. But we are not directly in touch with them, we are in touch with our Pakistani supervisors and they are in touch with the Australians and the Pakistani team of linguists who outsource these translations. We only receive updated guidelines at the end of the project when the next project is available or when there comes a break in between a project. So, I use this forum to improve my translations. And I have learned a lot from here.

So we are asked by our Pakistani supervisors to use such terminologies that are understood by the native speakers, because we are bound not to add illustrations of local words in English within brackets or quotes because there are certain limitations we have to work under. If we don't find any equivalent then we resort to tag those words to make them understand they don't belong to English but we don't give its definition in brackets (as it is not acceptable by their automated machines) anything in brackets will be invisible to them and will be rejected.
 
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BobK

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Is there anything wrong with using roti (a type of bread) and nika-nama (a type of pre-nuptial agreement)?
;
:up: This is good. A "translation" that makes simplistic and inaccurate localizations is annoying and unhelpful. ;-)

In other words, if you translate nika-nama as "pre-nuptial agreement" without further explanation, your translation will be a poor one.
:up: Yes - a "prenuptial contract" has a specific legal meaning in the Western world, to the extent that is often referred to with the abbreviation prenup. But prenuptial means something, and so does agreement. And the intersection of a Wenn diagram made up of prenuptial things and agreements fits - among other things, such as a prenup - a nika-nama.

In the end, what you have to do is what the client wants; this doesn't prevent a translator from trying to educate a client who has a mistaken view of what translation is. (But feel free to ignore that last suggestion [which probably explains why so many of my translating gigs have been short-lived] :) :oops:

b
 
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