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    #31

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    That's the sentence we have been talking about.

    If you want to use 'before' instead of 'after', you can, though it changes the meaning considerably. (And, before you ask, the tense in the 'before' clause does not affect the tenses in the conditional sentence.

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    #32

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    How could he have won the cup before he played the match? Killed his opponent?
    The match referred to might have been nothing to do with the cup.
    Last edited by Rover_KE; 19-Jul-2016 at 18:28.

  3. man of manners's Avatar
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    #33

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Sorry, I thought that using "before" instead of "after" with a different sequence of tenses will not change the meaning but it turned out to do.
    Note the sentence after changes:
    "if he had played well before he won the match, I would have been happy with him"
    The new sentence implies that he won but ,in fact, he did not.

    Although I was mistaken at this point, I now reached some points I haven't understood before
    Thanks for all who contributed their helpful viewpoints to my subject.

    I think I should make my study of this question deeper regarding some more details.
    I will prepare a very helpful explanation as to why the past perfect should be used, then I'll provide it to you all.

    You all deserve more than a million thanks, especially Piscean and Matthew :)

    Please, don't close my subject because it is not the very end, I think.
    The game has just begun. :D
    Once again, the subject hasn't ended yet, so anyone has any opinion or any additional or helpful information, they can share it with us.
    I open the thread every day. I will not leave the subject until I am 100% certain. This will not happen except after more opinions are given and more research is done.

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    #34

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    "if he had played well before he won the match, I would have been happy with him"
    The new sentence implies that he won but ,in fact, he did not.
    It does not imply that.

    Please leave a space after a comma, not before one.

  5. man of manners's Avatar
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    #35

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    It does not imply that.
    Please leave a space after a comma, not before one.
    Why do you think so?
    Can you explain this?

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    #36

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    The time clause is not part of the hypothetical condition.

    To put it the same way: The time clause is not part of the hypothetical condition.

  7. man of manners's Avatar
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    #37

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    The time clause is not part of the hypothetical condition.
    To put it the same way: The time clause is not part of the hypothetical condition.
    I know but the if-clause implies that the subject "he" did not play well but he won anyway.
    The same applies to the first sentence we discussed.
    "if he had won the cup after he had played the match, I would have been happy with him". It implies that the subject "he" did not win but he did play.

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    #38

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    I know but the if-clause implies that the subject "he" did not play well but he won anyway.
    The same applies to the first sentence we discussed.
    "if he had won the cup after he had played the match, I would have been happy with him". It implies that the subject "he" did not win but he did play.
    It seems you're trying to make a distinction between:
    "If he had won the cup, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup after playing the match, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup before playing the match, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup despite not having played the match, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup under any circumstances, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup after having played the match, after having come to the field after having had his breakfast, I would have been happy with him."

    The red clauses/phrases don't affect the tense in which the other two clauses have to be.

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    #39

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    "if he had played well before he won the match, I would have been happy with him"
    'He won the match' is a fact, and 'he had played well' is the opposite of the fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    "if he had won the cup after he had played the match, I would have been happy with him".
    'He had played the match' is a fact, and 'he had won the cup' is the opposite of the fact.
    I am not a teacher.

  10. man of manners's Avatar
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    #40

    Re: a very confusing sentence concerning the third conditional of "if"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    It seems you're trying to make a distinction between:
    "If he had won the cup, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup after playing the match, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup before playing the match, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup despite not having played the match, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup under any circumstances, I would have been happy with him."
    "If he had won the cup after having played the match, after having come to the field after having had his breakfast, I would have been happy with him."
    The red clauses/phrases don't affect the tense in which the other two clauses have to be.
    Thanks for this explanation.
    But you didn't mention anything about "after he had played the match". Are you avoiding it? Are you avoiding giving your opinion about such a sensitive point?

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