Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
  1. Matthew Wai's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong

    • Join Date: Nov 2013
    • Posts: 7,852
    #1

    I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached ...

    I am starting this thread because this long thread is confusing me.

    Assuming I don't know whether Tom turned left or right and whether he arrived or got lost, can I say the following?

    1. 'If he bore left after he reached the fork, he got lost.'
    2. 'If he bore right after he reached the fork, he would have arrived.'

    In this post, emsr2d2 told me to use 'If he had borne', but then it denotes that I actually know whether he turned left or not and whether he arrived or not when I actually don't.
    Last edited by Matthew Wai; 26-Jul-2016 at 08:42.
    I am not a teacher.

  2. man of manners's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Arabic
      • Home Country:
      • Egypt
      • Current Location:
      • Egypt

    • Join Date: Jul 2016
    • Posts: 354
    #2

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    Assuming I don't know whether Tom turned left or right and whether he arrived or got lost, can I say the following?
    1. 'If he bore left after he reached the fork, he got lost.'
    2. 'If he bore right after he reached the fork, he would have arrived.'
    Not a teacher

    No, you can say only the first one because it constitutes one possible event while there are two.
    If he bore left [after he reached the fork], he got lost AND If he bore right [after he reached the fork], he did not get lost.
    The second sentence, being a third conditional, implies one possible fact that he neither bore right nor arrived.
    Last edited by emsr2d2; 26-Jul-2016 at 11:44. Reason: Added "Not a teacher"

  3. Piscean's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Czech Republic
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 10,021
    #3

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    Nlost.
    The second sentence, being a third conditional, .
    The second sentence is NOT a third conditional.

  4. Matthew Wai's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong

    • Join Date: Nov 2013
    • Posts: 7,852
    #4

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    The second sentence is not intended to be a third conditional because whether he turned right and arrived is unknown.

    Is it correct to use that sentence? If not, how can I say it correctly?
    I am not a teacher.

  5. Piscean's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Czech Republic
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 10,021
    #5

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Your second sentence is possible (though I'd use 'turned' rather than 'bore'. The 'would have' construction expresses a degree of certainty.(
    Last edited by Piscean; 26-Jul-2016 at 20:39. Reason: format

  6. Matthew Wai's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong

    • Join Date: Nov 2013
    • Posts: 7,852
    #6

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    The 'would have' construction expresses a degree of certainty.
    Do you mean he would have certainly arrived if he bore right at that time or the speaker is certain that he turned right?
    Last edited by Matthew Wai; 26-Jul-2016 at 12:39.
    I am not a teacher.

  7. man of manners's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Arabic
      • Home Country:
      • Egypt
      • Current Location:
      • Egypt

    • Join Date: Jul 2016
    • Posts: 354
    #7

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    Your second sentence is possible (though I'd use 'turned' rather than 'bore'. The 'would have' construction expresses a degree of certainty.
    Not a teacher

    If you see the sentence from this perspective, then I agree with you. But there is also another prospective I see this sentence from.
    Last edited by emsr2d2; 26-Jul-2016 at 13:50. Reason: Added not a teacher.

  8. Piscean's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Czech Republic
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 10,021
    #8

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    If you see the sentence from this perspective, then I agree with you. But there is also another prospective I see this sentence from.
    If it is from the perspective that "If he bore right after he reached the fork, he would have arrived" is a third condition, then it is based on a misunderstanding.

    Third conditional sentences are about a past time irrealis situation. We do not use the past simple for past-time irrealis situations.

  9. man of manners's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Arabic
      • Home Country:
      • Egypt
      • Current Location:
      • Egypt

    • Join Date: Jul 2016
    • Posts: 354
    #9

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    Third conditional sentences are about a past time irrealis situation. We do not use the past simple for past-time irrealis situations
    I know this for sure and that's what increasing doubt inside me because I also agree with you about the wrongness of using the past simple for past-time irrealis situations. But I have some examples found on the internet and I really want to know your logical explanation for using the past simple in the if-clause.
    Visit my original post and tell me your view point.
    I am not a teacher, but you can trust my answers only if you feel convinced. If not, keep asking till you finally find what you want *The Truth*.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 9,381
    #10

    Re: I don't know whether Tom turned left or right. If he bore right after he reached

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    Visit my original post and tell me your view point.
    May I suggest that you cast your request as a request, not as a demand? You're more likely to get the result you want.
    I am not a teacher.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Words like CODE that are turned into CODIFY that don't sound alike
    By Whyte92 in forum Pronunciation and Phonetics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 29-Mar-2014, 17:12
  2. I don't have much charge/electricity left
    By Winwin2011 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 15-Nov-2012, 16:57
  3. bore me to death vs. bore me to tears?
    By maoyueh in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30-Sep-2011, 00:42
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 26-Aug-2009, 19:22
  5. don't leave me on the left field
    By angliholic in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 24-Oct-2007, 02:29

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •