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  1. man of manners's Avatar
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    #1

    Reduced relative clauses.

    Hi!
    Can you, please, tell me what was removed from the following sentences and what is the general rule of the reduction of the following clauses?
    1- This is the road he travelled.
    2- He had no place to stay. [Shouldn't we say "place to stay in?"]
    3- It is the same speed this machine is used.

    Thanks in advance!
    I am not a teacher, but you can trust my answers only if you feel convinced. If not, keep asking till you finally find what you want *The Truth*.

  2. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    1. This is the road on which he travelled.
    2. He had no place to stay in.
    3. It is the same speed at which this machine runs.
    I am not a teacher.

  3. man of manners's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    What is the general rule?
    I am not a teacher, but you can trust my answers only if you feel convinced. If not, keep asking till you finally find what you want *The Truth*.

  4. Piscean's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    Quote Originally Posted by man of manners View Post
    1- This is the road he travelled.
    You can travel (transitive) a road, so there is no necessity for a preposition
    3- It is the same speed this machine is used.
    That one doesn't work for me without 'at' at the end.

  5. Raymott's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    Have you checked the web?
    "reduced relative clause rules"
    https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sour...clause%20rules

  6. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    Also see 'contact relative clause' at https://www.google.com/?ion=1&espv=2...elative+clause
    I am not a teacher.

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    #7

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    [1] "This is the road he travelled".
    [2] "He had no place to stay".
    [3] "It is the same speed this machine is used".

    In [1] "he travelled" is a 'bare' relative clause, the kind without the subordinator "that". In [2], "to stay" is an infinitival relative clause (compare the finite relative "He had no place where he could stay") and in [3], a preposition (or preposition phrase) is required to make it grammatical: either the bare relative "... the speed this machine is used at" or "... the speed at which this machine is used".

    I wouldn't say that these examples are 'reduced relative clauses'. That term (in my experience) is normally applied to constructions like "Students living on campus must attend the meeting", where the relative pronoun and "be" are deleted; compare "Students who are living on campus ...".

    Last edited by PaulMatthews; 04-Sep-2016 at 18:07. Reason: typo

  7. man of manners's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    You can travel (transitive) a road, so there is no necessity for a preposition
    What if it is: This is the road he walked?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    Have you checked the web?
    "reduced relative clause rules"
    https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sour...clause%20rules
    Yes, I checked the internet so many times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    Also see 'contact relative clause' at https://www.google.com/?ion=1&espv=2...elative+clause
    Thanks, Matthew.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMatthews View Post
    [2] "He had no place to stay".
    In [2], "to stay" is an infinitival relative clause (compare the finite relative "He had no place where he could stay")
    OK, why did we not say "He had no place to stay at"?
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMatthews View Post
    and in [3], a preposition (or preposition phrase) is required to make it grammatical: either the bare relative "... the speed this machine is used at" or "... the speed at which this machine is used".
    I somewhat feel it informal but correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMatthews View Post
    I wouldn't say that these examples are 'reduced relative clauses'. That term (in my experience) is normally applied to constructions like "Students living on campus must attend the meeting", where the relative pronoun and "be" are deleted; compare "Students who are living on campus ...".
    Thanks for this note.
    Last edited by man of manners; 04-Sep-2016 at 20:13. Reason: typos
    I am not a teacher, but you can trust my answers only if you feel convinced. If not, keep asking till you finally find what you want *The Truth*.

  8. man of manners's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    I still need answers.
    I am not a teacher, but you can trust my answers only if you feel convinced. If not, keep asking till you finally find what you want *The Truth*.

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    #10

    Re: Reduced relative clauses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    2. He had no place to stay at.
    You don't stay "in" in a place, you stay "at" a place.

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