"A couple was talking about its children".

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MeyaN

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"A couple was talking about its children". Is this correct?
 

SoothingDave

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Skrej

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Unless in the highly unlikely event the couple was speaking of a single parent monster or alien whose gender they couldn't gauge.
 

MeyaN

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But the original statement is grammatically correct. Isn't it?
 

emsr2d2

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In BrE, "couple" leads to some confusing and seemingly contradictory usages.

1. This couple has two children.
2. This couple have two children.
3. This couple are talking about their children.

In the first, the couple is seen as one unit - that unit has produced two children. In the second and third, they are treated as two separate people - each person is a parent of the same two children, and they are both talking about the children they produced.

In BrE, you'll hear both sentences 1 and 2. I don't think you'd hear "This couple is talking about ...".

The other reason that "their" is certainly more natural in your original is that the couple are clearly people. We don't use "it" to refer to people. We use "his/her/their" to talk about possession.
 

ChinaDan

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SoothingDave

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A couple was talking about their children.

It's a seeming logical contradiction, but this sentence sounds perfectly normal to me for AmE. The couple is singular as a subject, but "they" have children.
 

ChinaDan

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As ems noted 'couple' can be regarded as a singular unit. Here are some examples: of 'couple was': http://fraze.it/n_search.jsp?q="couple+was"&l=0&t=0&ffo=false&findid=-1&ff=

:lol: No way I'm taking the writings of modern "journalists" as fine examples of adult literacy. What a joke the majority of them are.

More importantly, you yourself instinctively interpreted this situation as plural. Furthermore:

“Are they a couple?” “No, they are just good friends.”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/couple

Consider, if you will:
"There are two people left to see, but their needs are simple and shouldn't take long to deal with".
"There is one couple left, but their needs are simple and shouldn't take long to deal with".
"There are a few people left, but their needs...".

However:
There is a large crowd in the park and it looks like it has the whole area blocked off.

The first and third examples, I think we agree on; "people" removes any doubt about plurality.

I put it to you then, that when referring to the crowd, we conceptualize it as a large entity. We know it is made of people (plural), but when acting as a crowd, we perceive it as a single entity. We seem happy to use the singular forms here.

When we say "couple", at least in reference to two humans, we view them conceptual as two people who are connected to at least some extent. As I mentioned above, I think you see it this way too.

Honestly, looking at that 957 examples thing, one after the other I was ticking off, "Nope, plural. Nope, plural again. And again...".

I'm afraid I reject the singular, at least insofar as two people are concerned. I can't really think of an exception even.
 

jutfrank

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If we use A couple were, that's surely a giveaway that we conceive of two individuals, and when we say A couple was, we imagine a single unit. Does the confusion stem from the fact that with the former, there's the concept of plurality in our minds, but the phrase itself seems to be in a singular form?

If there's a difference between a signifier (e.g. the phrase A couple) and the signified (the actual couple), between symbols and things, language and reality, which are we talking about when we say 'singular or plural'?
 

GoesStation

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I'm afraid I reject the singular, at least insofar as two people are concerned. I can't really think of an exception even.

My wife and I were somewhat chagrined a couple of days ago when a stranger emerging from a building we were heading into said "you're a cute couple." Singular, right?
 

ChinaDan

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My wife and I were somewhat chagrined a couple of days ago when a stranger emerging from a building we were heading into said "you're a cute couple." Singular, right?

I am.
He/She/It is.

Everything else uses "are", including the plural form of "you".

Swing and a miss. I callz-em az I seez-em. :lol:
 

ChinaDan

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I think GS was referring to the indefinite article before 'cute couple' rather than the form of the verb.

They make a cute couple.
---- - ------
^ ^ ^
| | |
| | personal plural pronoun (plural to agree with the plural pronoun "they")
| indefinite article (singular)
pronoun (plural in construction)

The bottom line here is that to treat this as a 3rd person singular, as you insist is an acceptable case, is to reduce the word "couple" to a "thing", utterly dehumanizing what the word represents.

"Couple" comes from the Latin copula, meaning to copulate. Even without any inference of love or commitment, it is still an act of intimacy between two people. It screams of the need to recognize this humanity, and to see the plurality of the couple; the meeting of two people.

I recognize your approach to language; a strong emphasis on prescriptive skills. I realize that my approach, heavily influenced by the likes of Chomsky, Krashen, and Kohn, is often at odds with yours. The debate between Skills Based Learning, and Language Acquisition methods has existed for decades. We are unlikely to resolve that debate here.

Therefore, I surrender without prejudice. The field is yours.
 

Rover_KE

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As MeyaN has not responded since post #6, can we conclude that s/he has lost interest, or even the will to live?
 
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