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    #1

    A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Here is the whole sentence. (from an article from the Economist)

    To most outsiders, the Netherlands is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with Amsterdam the main port of call.

    I think that the italic part could be put in another way as 'Amsterdam is synonymous with the main port of call'. Can anyone clear it out? If I am right, how can the-with-phrase can have that structure grammatically?

  2. teechar's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    Here is the whole a sentence from an article from in The Economist.

    To most outsiders, the Netherlands is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with Amsterdam the main port of call.

    I think that the italic part could be put in another way as 'Amsterdam is synonymous with the main port of call'.
    No. The original says that Amsterdam is (not is synonymous with) the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    Can anyone clarify that for me please? clear it out? If I am right, how can the "with" phrase can have that structure grammatically?
    I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll say this,
    "With Amsterdam the main port of call" means "and Amsterdam is the main port of call."

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    #3

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Thank you for your correction, teechar. I am still afraid of writing in English because of making a lot of mistakes. But at least I try to do that, and I hope it will get better after trials and errors.

    Quote Originally Posted by teechar View Post
    No. The original says that Amsterdam is (not is synonymous with) the main port of call.



    I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll say this,
    "With Amsterdam the main port of call" means "and Amsterdam is the main port of call."
    I got what you mean. Is it correct to use noun consecutively like the original? I would put comma after the first noun such as "...with Amsterdam, the main port of call"

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    #4

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    Is it correct to use noun consecutively like the original? I would put comma after the first noun such as "...with Amsterdam, the main port of call"
    The comma is incorrect.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #5

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    GoesStation, can you explain why is it incorrect? Then, can you check the sentence below? (The sentence is made up)
    Currency rate is responsible for the price of smartphone products made by Samsung big mobile manufacturer.
    I think the bold part has the same structure as the original sentence we talked about. (/Samsung (noun)/big mobile manufacturer (noun phrase)/)

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    #6

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    To most outsiders, the Netherlands is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with Amsterdam the main port of call.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    Is it correct to use noun consecutively like the original? I would put comma after the first noun such as "...with Amsterdam, the main port of call"
    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    The comma is incorrect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    GoesStation, can you explain why is it incorrect?
    The comma makes the words that follow it into the beginning of a new clause. Without the comma, the reader understands the phrase as with Amsterdam being the main port of call.

    Write Can you explain why it is incorrect? I'm sorry my command of grammar is insufficient to give you a better explanation.

    Then, can you check the sentence below? (The sentence is made up)
    Currency rate is responsible for the price of smartphone products made by Samsung big mobile manufacturer.
    I think the bold part has the same structure as the original sentence we talked about. (/Samsung (noun)/big mobile manufacturer (noun phrase)/)
    The structure is different, if I understand it correctly. I'll wait for a forum member stronger in grammar to explain the details - but I think the phrase I've marked in red uses a similar structure.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #7

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    The comma makes the words that follow it into the beginning of a new clause. Without the comma, the reader understands the phrase as with Amsterdam being the main port of call.

    Write Can you explain why it is incorrect? I'm sorry my command of grammar is insufficient to give you a better explanation.
    Thanks for your correction. I was confused to use 'it' and 'is' in the right order.
    Your explanation is very helpful to me. I just wanted to hear more detailed explanation from you. So basically is 'being' omitted in the original sentence? That makes sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    The structure is different, if I understand it correctly. I'll wait for a forum member stronger in grammar to explain the details - but I think the phrase I've marked in red uses a similar structure.
    No I think the structure is the same. Consider them this way:
    From my perspective, the bold parts have the same role as NP(noun phrase).
    [Amsterdam(noun)/ being/ the main port(noun phrase)/ of(preposition)/ call(noun)]
    [Samsung(noun)/ being/ big(adj)/ mobile(adj)/ manufacturer(noun)]
    And I'd also like hear from other forum members who are stronger in grammar.
    Last edited by Bebop7; 22-Jan-2017 at 02:34. Reason: fixed typo

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    #8

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    I would put comma after the first noun such as "...with Amsterdam, the main port of call"
    I am not a teacher. I am currently studying basic English grammar.

    When I was a high school student, I learned something like this:

    -----------------------------------------
    The "with+O+C" structure. [O = noun; C = complement; C describes O.]

    Roughly speaking, this structure basically means "with the state/condition of O being C", "with the fact that O is/was/etc C", or the like. Here are some examples:

    (1) Mary looked at me with her eyes full of tears. [O = her eyes; C = full of tears]

    Mary looked at me with her eyes full of tears. = "Mary looked at me" + "her eyes were full of tears"

    (2) John lay in bed with the window open. = "John lay in bed" + "the window was open"

    (3) He's sitting on a chair with his legs crossed. = "He's sitting on a chair" + "his legs are crossed"
    -----------------------------------------

    I think:
    "with Amsterdam the main port of call" = "with Amsterdam being the main port of call" = "with the fact that Amsterdam is the main port of call".
    ["with Amsterdam the main port of call" = "with Amsterdam being the main port of call"; O = "Amsterdam"; C = "being the main port of call']

    I think that if you put a comma between "Amsterdam" and "the main port of call", it will destroy the "with+O+C" structure of "with Amsterdam the main port of call."

    Thank you.
    Last edited by YAMATO2201; 22-Jan-2017 at 05:20.

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    #9

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by YAMATO2201 View Post
    I am not a teacher. I am currently studying basic English grammar.

    I think:
    "with Amsterdam the main port of call" = "with Amsterdam being the main port of call" = "with the fact that Amsterdam is the main port of call".
    ["with Amsterdam the main port of call" = "with Amsterdam being the main port of call"; O = "Amsterdam"; C = "being the main port of call']

    I think that if you put a comma between "Amsterdam" and "the main port of call", it will destroy the "with+O+C" structure of "with Amsterdam the main port of call."

    Thank you.
    Thank you, YAMATO2201. I agree with your clarification. I thought that a comma might be required because as I learned we usually put a comma to separate the noun phrases. (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/gram...ces/apposition) However, the sentence that we talked about is not the case.

  10. YAMATO2201's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: A is synonymous with liberal, legalised vice, with B the main port of call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop7 View Post
    Thank you, YAMATO2201. I agree with your clarification. I thought that a comma might be required because as I learned we usually put a comma to separate the noun phrases. (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/gram...ces/apposition) However, the sentence that we talked about is not the case.
    You are welcome. I am a Japanese learner of English.

    The Japanese language is in stark contrast to the English language in many ways. I think that most Japanese learners of English have to struggle to surmount numerous formidable obstacles resulting from the differences between English and Japanese if they pursue the true understanding of the English language. The Korean language is said to be fairly similar to the Japanese language. Presumably, the English language is not so easy for you to learn. In that sense, I would be very happy if you and I could help each other in the process of learning English.
    Last edited by YAMATO2201; 22-Jan-2017 at 11:04.

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