Peter sipped his beer

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Bassim

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I feel something is wrong with my sentences, but I cannot point out the mistake. Would you please correct my mistakes?

1.Peter sipped his beer, staring at the bosomy barmaid pulling the draught beer. He tried to pluck up courage to ask her for a date.

or this version:

2. Peter sipped his beer, staring at the bosomy barmaid, who pulled the draught beer. He tried to pluck up courage to ask her for a date.
 

emsr2d2

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Albeit a distinctly unsavoury, potentially sexist, description of her shape, I'd use "busty" or "buxom", rather than "bosomy".

Also, is the beer he is drinking the one that the barmaid pulled? If so, then "Peter sipped his beer/pint, staring at the busty barmaid who had pulled it."
 

Rover_KE

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Avoid repeating 'beer' in the same sentence - as Piscean and ems did.
 

teechar

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Peter sipped his beer, staring at the [STRIKE]bosomy[/STRIKE] lovely barmaid pulling a pint. [STRIKE]the draught beer.[/STRIKE] He tried to pluck up the courage to ask her [STRIKE]for[/STRIKE] out on a date.
.
 

Bassim

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emsr2d2,

With all due respect, but the Logman Dictionary does not say anything about sexism or something other negative regarding the word "bosomy." Maybe you and some other people see it as sexist, but for others it is an ordinary word which simply describes a woman's breast. I have used "bosomy" to describe the barmaid, because her large breasts were the first thing men saw in her. When I wrote this sentence I did not think about sexism or what connotations the word "bosomy" would have, but how to describe a man sitting with his beer and staring at the barmaid pulling a pint. As the draught tap is usually at or just below the level of human breasts, it would be natural for him to look at that part of her body, especially if he was sexually interested in her.
 

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In AmE you're more likely to hear about somebody 'pouring' draught beer, rather than 'pulling'. You're also more likely to see 'draught' as 'draft', although the first is used.
 

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'Bosomy' to me conjures up images of older grandmothers and aunts, rather than expressing sexual attraction.

Greg Brown has a humorous anecdote in his song "Canned Goods" about nearly getting "bosomed to death" when his buxom aunts would hug him, nearly suffocating him. The relevant part starts around 6:48.
 

Bassim

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Skrej,

The problem is that English dictionaries do not say much about the word "bosomy." Longman dictionary says, "bosomy: having large breast." And I, who am not a native speaker, do not know what kind of meaning that word can produce in the mind of the reader. When I describe a scene, I see it right in front of my eyes, as if I am in the middle of it. Then I try to put the words on the screen, thinking about if I used them grammatically correct. Then first when I post my sentence or a text on the forum I can see where I had made a mistake.
 

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Yes, one downside of dictionaries is that they don't convey nuance well.

You could call somebody fat, corpulent, obese, or over-weight and get similar dictionary definitions (or even cross definitions) with the others listed as synonyms, but the words each convey very different tones.

About the only way to get a good idea of nuance is to test words with native speakers, as you're doing.
 

emsr2d2

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It's certainly more of a cultural issue than a grammatical issue in this context. There is nothing grammatically wrong with calling her a "bosomy/busty/buxom barmaid" but you need to be aware that describing people using only subjective physical attributes can cause offence. If you said "the lovely barmaid", you probably wouldn't come across the same potential problem because it would be assumed that you're saying she is a lovely person. It wouldn't necessarily suggest that you were only interested in her because of how she looks.
 

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emsr2d2


Thank you for your suggestions. I appreciate them very much. The problem with the word "lovely" is that that word does not says much about that person. But if I write "busty barmaid" it can be sexist, as you say, but at least she has a physical characteristic which distinguishes her from other women. And if I wrote more description, she would be unique. I could also write for example: "Peter was a kind man," but the word "kind" does not separate him from thousands of kind men. But if I write: "Peter was a man with an aquiline nos, no hair on his large head and big ears," I have made him a person. He may appear ugly, but I have made him a different person from thousands of other men.
 

teechar

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You could have used "attractive", "pretty", "good looking", "stunning", "gorgeous", "irresistible", "ravishing", "hot", "foxy", etc. to describe the barmaid.

That's not to say that words such as "busty", "buxom" or "voluptuous" don't exist or aren't used. We are simply pointing out their overt sexual (and potentially sexist) connotations which many people (including myself) take offense to, especially when such words are unjustifiably/carelessly used in contexts that don't require them.

Also, the male comparison you mentioned above is not quite the same. Describing a man's nose or bald head is not the same as talking about a woman's breasts.
 

emsr2d2

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I could also write for example: "Peter was a kind man," but the word "kind" does not separate him from thousands of kind men. But if I write: "Peter was a man with an aquiline nos, no hair on his large head and big ears," I have made him a person. He may appear ugly, but I have made him a different person from thousands of other men.

I'm sure you noticed my use of the word "subjective" in my previous post. The comments above are an ideal example - you have just said that you think a bald man with big ears and an aquiline nose is ugly. That's a subjective statement. Plenty of other people might find him attractive.
Admittedly, saying that a woman is busty/buxom isn't exactly subjective - it is presumably a statement of fact. The problem, as you now know, is that there is something inherently distasteful (for many people) about concentrating on a woman's breast size.
 

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teechar,
Thank you for your advice, but all these adjectives you have mentioned in your post do not say anything concrete about a person. They are not specific. In which way is she "hot" or "stunning?" For some men, women with large breasts are attractive, or those with long legs, while other men prefer petite. I cannot understand that someone can take offence at a word which describes a part of human body, even if it is about a woman's body. A description must be specific, otherwise it has no function. I apology to all of you if I have caused you any offence. I posted my sentence only because I wanted to see if it was grammatically correct.
 

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emsr2d2,

I did not say that the man with big ears is ugly. I have said that he may be ugly. It is not important if he is ugly or not but that he is a person with specific traits which distinguish him from other people.
 

teechar

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teechar,
Thank you for your advice, but all these adjectives you have mentioned in your post do not say anything concrete about a person.
I disagree. They say that the observer found that person physically attractive.

For some men, women with large breasts [STRIKE]are attractive,[/STRIKE] or those with long legs are attractive, while other men prefer petite women. I cannot understand that someone can take offense at a word which describes a part of the human body, even if it is about a woman's body.
Imagine they're talking about your mother, wife or daughter. Would you still accept that description?

A description must be specific, otherwise it has no function. I apologize to all of you if I have caused you any offense. I posted my sentence only because I wanted to see if it was grammatically correct.
That's okay; I never thought that you meant to offend. I was just pointing out that there are certain contexts in which such words belong. I don't think they should be used freely as they are increasingly (and unfortunately) being used nowadays.
 

teechar

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That's a very good test for the acceptability of a word.


I should have added "sister" to it; I don't know how that one slipped my mind.
 
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