Dripping from aside

[lupicatulum]

When and why did masses became a word that you (people from western countries) associate with Marxism, Maoism, Lenjinism, etc.?

It's a matter of context.

I understand that, but that's the whole point of the disscussion.

With what did you associate it in 16th century? 12th?

There was no American English in the 16th century.

I did wrote "you (from western countries)", so I did not refer specificaly to Americans.

Does anybody know any article that is already written regarding this subject?

On the subject of word usage? A dictionary.

You didn't get my point. Let me give you another example. Have you ever heard of the dark web? I bet you did. But If I asked you that question two years ago, what would you answer? Dark web? What the hack is that?? Now we have two options:

1) Somebody at some point said that word and then that word spontaniously spread all over the world
2) Somebody at some point invented that word and released it into the ether via TV series and movies

And since I watch TV series a lot, I remember the day when that word was released into the ether. In one week sveral different TV series used that idiom. One guy says "It was on the dark web", and others say "What is the dark web?" and then the first guy (usualy a geek) starts to explain what the dark web is.

Now you could say that the dark web didn't exist until two years ago, but it's like saying that hacking didn't exist until Angelina Jolie teached the general public who the hackers were in 1995.

How the words come and go, how they differently change the context of the disscussion depending of the century, how they suddenly become vulgarity... That's something that intrigues me.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I don't know the official rule, but I wouldn't end a sentence with 4 periods. In my mind, if a sentence ends with an ellipsis, it is sort of a trailing off thought, something deliberately unfinished.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aposiopesis

Wikipedia agrees with me on this.

Neither would I. But it's not four periods. It's one ellipsis and one period. Publishers and editors tend to space them: . . . .

My professor sister doesn't allow her students to use Wikipedia (or the Onion) as a research source. So hm. Should I?

 

[Matthew Wai]

All people, including a learner like me, can edit Wikipedia, right?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I understand that, but that's the whole point of the discussion.

I thought the point was about having a second source of income.

I wrote "you (from western countries)", so I did not refer specifically to Americans.

You asked when it happened, and I said I didn't know. And the US is a western country.

You didn't get my point.

Maybe you didn't get mine. The expression the masses has a meaning. The meaning is more narrow and more ideological than the general public. It's a poor word choice for that sentence. I don't know why. I don't know why a clock is called a clock.

Let me give you another example. Have you ever heard of the dark web?

No. It sounds like something in a Keanu Reeves movie.

I bet you did. But If I asked you that question two years ago, what would you answer? Dark web? What the heck is that? Now we have two options:

1) Somebody at some point said that word and then that word spontaneously spread all over the world.
2) Somebody at some point invented that word and released it into the ether via TV series and movies.

That's one option. Option 2 is a subset of option 1. TV and movies are two of many ways it might have spontaneously spread. Language changed before people started watching TV and movies.

And since I watch TV series a lot, I remember the day when that word was released into the ether. In one week several different TV series used that idiom. One guy says "It was on the dark web", and others say "What is the dark web?" and then the first guy (usualy a geek) starts to explain what the dark web is.

Now you could say that the dark web didn't exist until two years ago, but it's like saying that hacking didn't exist until Angelina Jolie taught the general public who the hackers were in 1995.

How the words come and go, how they differently change the context of the discussion depending of the century, how they suddenly become vulgarity... That's something that intrigues me.

It's an interesting question. Again, I can't name any books that can help you get to the bottom of it. Let us know what you learn!

 

[emsr2d2]

I'd consider that pretty invasive.

So would I. Also, there is no need for us to know anyone's gender or any other personal information on the forum.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

All people, including a learner like me, can edit Wikipedia, right?

Yes. I've done it. Go have fun!

 

[lupicatulum]

It's an interesting question. Again, I can't name any books that can help you get to the bottom of it. Let us know what you learn!

It doesn't really matter. I'm just practicing English skills, and learning by your corrections.
I must say again, this is the most userful forum on the Interent!

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

It doesn't really matter. I'm just practicing English skills, and learning by your corrections.
I must say again, this is the most userful forum on the Interent!

I tried Googling to find out something about what the phrase the masses means to American ears. There's a lot about the word, but nothing about its history. For what it's worth, I don't think the meaning has changed over the years. It's always meant the majority, ordinary people, and it's usually understood to have a Marxist ring.

The American riight doesn't usually call the masses the masses. There's no rule against it, it's just not big in conservatives' vocabulary. In fact, most Americans don't use it in your sense because it has an old-fashioned soap-box sound.

(Do you have an expression like soap box? In the nineteenth and early twentieth century, before radios, people would stand on soap boxes to talk politics to crowds.)

Anyhow, again, happy hunting!

 

[lupicatulum]

The American riight doesn't usually call the masses the masses. There's no rule against it, it's just not big in conservatives' vocabulary. In fact, most Americans don't use it in your sense because it has an old-fashioned soap-box sound.

(Do you have an expression like soap box? In the nineteenth and early twentieth century, before radios, people would stand on soap boxes to talk politics to crowds.)

I've seen soap-boxes in movies, but I don't think we have a word for anything like it. In fact, I heard that word for the first time in my life right now.