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    #1

    He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    I'm confused by the causative verb 'insisted'.

    In some grammar exercises I have done, the verb that follows a causative verb must be base.
    - Example: She insisted he take his medicine.

    While practising writing a narrative, I wanted to say either of these:

    (A) He insisted that the fault of the accident do/did not lie with him. (I think the correct tense should be 'did' since it's a past tense sentence. In this case, what about the causative verb rule as set out in the above example)

    (B) He insisted the accident is/was not his fault. (I think 'was' is correct but same confusion as (A); what about the causative verb rule?)

    I'm not understanding something, but I don't know what.

    Thank you for teaching me.

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    #2

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    I am not an English teacher but what I can tell you is

    (A) He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him. You can't use "do" because this was in the past.

    (B) The same with "was".

    This is AE as I know it but there could be a different answer for BE.

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    #3

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    In (A), you don't need to use the auxiliary do at all in order to follow the pattern.

    He insisted that the fault of the accident lie not with him.

    As far as (B) is concerned, I would suggest avoiding any causative verb rules and simply use

    He insisted the accident was not his fault.

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    #4

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    In (A), you don't need to use the auxiliary do at all in order to follow the pattern.

    He insisted that the fault of the accident lie not with him.

    As far as (B) is concerned, I would suggest avoiding any causative verb rules and simply use

    He insisted the accident was not his fault.

    He insisted that the fault of the accident lie not with him. This sounds much better. I did not think of writing it this way.
    I don't intentionally want to use the causative verb rule. It's just that in a narrative, I don't know when the rule applies and when it does not.
    Does it mean that in this sentence, the "insisted" is not a causative verb hence I don't have to apply the rule?
    - He insisted the accident was not his fault.

    Sorry, I'm just confused. I would appreciate help to understand it.

    Thank you!

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    #5

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    I just saw these questions from http://www.myenglishclub.com/profile...ausative-verbs

    (a) I insisted that Laura do her homework.
    (b) I insisted that Laura does her homework.

    Which is correct? My guess is 'do', based on the causative verb rule.

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    #6

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post

    He insisted that the fault of the accident lie not with him.
    That sounds very unnatural to me.

    If his insistence is a firm claim that he was not responsible for the accident then a past tense is correct and natural, though I find the idea of 'the fault of the accident' lying with him very awkward. I would say something like:

    He insisted that he was not to blame for the accident.
    He insisted that he was not responsible for the accident.

    If his insistence is a demand that he should not be held responsible for the accident (for example, in a report that is about to be published), then I would say something like:

    He insisted that he should not be blamed for the accident.
    He insisted that he should ne be held responsible for the accident.

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    #7

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanlike View Post
    (a) I insisted that Laura do her homework.
    (b) I insisted that Laura does her homework.
    a) This was a requirement that Laura must do her homework.

    b) This was an assertion that Laura (around the time of the assertion), does do her homework, perhaps in response to an assertion that she does not do it.

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    #8

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    a) This was a requirement that Laura must do her homework.

    b) This was an assertion that Laura (around the time of the assertion), does do her homework, perhaps in response to an assertion that she does not do it.
    Does this mean both answers are correct?

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    #9

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    b) This was an assertion that Laura (around the time of the assertion), does do her homework, perhaps in response to an assertion that she does not do it.
    I have difficulty understanding your explanation. Too deep for me! Can you simplify your explanation. Sorry about it.
    Also, does it mean that I need a context in order to know which tense to choose?

    Thank you!

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    #10

    Re: He insisted that the fault of the accident did not lie with him

    Situation A:

    Father: It's time for your homework, Laura.
    Laura: I'll do it later.
    Father: No, Laura, you will do it now.
    Laura: But this is my favourite programme.
    Father: Laura, switch off the television and start your homework, Now!
    Laura. OK.

    Laura's father insisted (that) she do her homework.

    (Although this, with subjunctive 'do', is the 'correct' version, many speakers of BrE would use 'did'.)


    Situation B:

    Mother: I'm worried about Laura. She doesn't do her homework.
    Father: She does, She goes to her room to do it every night.
    Mother: She goes to her room to play games on her computer,
    Father: She does her homework. I've seen her do it! She sometimes comes out to ask for help.
    Mother. Are you sure?
    Father. For heaven's sake, Mary. Laura does her homework!


    Laura's father insisted (that) she does her homework.

    (People who prefer to backshift even when it is not essential would use 'did')


    The fact that 'did' is possible in both situation means that only a knowledge of the wider context can tell us what a sentence containing 'did' really means.

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