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  1. nininaz's Avatar
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    #1

    Arrow Ask for something (structure)

    Please consider the following:


    "All I am asking for is to be given a chance."

    What was the main form or structure of sentence above before in rearranged? (before it was used in noun clause form)

    I found only the following structure by looking up in some dictionaries:
    "ask for somebody something" or "ask somebody to do something".
    NOT "ask for somebody to do something" (we don't have this structure in any dictionaries)

    But I don't know why did the writer use 'to do something' ?
    It is a bit confusing.
    Last edited by nininaz; 11-Apr-2017 at 09:56.
    So interested in learning English.

  2. teechar's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by nininaz View Post
    Please consider the following:

    "All I am asking for is to be given a chance."

    What was the main form or structure of the sentence above before in it was rearranged? (before it was used in noun clause form)

    I found only the following structure by looking up in some dictionaries:
    "ask for somebody something" or "ask somebody to do something".
    NOT"ask for somebody to do something" (we don't have this structure in any dictionaries)

    But I don't know why did the writer used 'to do something'.
    It is a bit confusing.
    Take a look at explanation #2.2 for "ask" as a verb in the link below.

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ask

    If you still need help, post back.

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    #3

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    The verb used here is: to ask for something

    The structure of the sentence is a little unusual. You can understand the phrase to be given a chance as functioning like an noun phrase (i.e. 'the thing I'm asking for'.) So the sentence has three parts -- SVO:

    All I'm asking for (S)
    is (V)
    to be given a chance.
    (O)

    It's possible, but less natural, to reverse the sentence, like this:

    To be given a chance
    (S)
    is
    (V)
    all I'm asking for.
    (O)

  4. nininaz's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    The verb used here is: to ask for something

    The structure of the sentence is a little unusual. You can understand the phrase to be given a chance as functioning like an noun phrase (i.e. 'the thing I'm asking for'.) So the sentence has three parts -- SVO:

    All I'm asking for (S)
    is (V)
    to be given a chance.
    (O)

    It's possible, but less natural, to reverse the sentence, like this:

    To be given a chance
    (S)
    is
    (V)
    all I'm asking for.
    (O)
    Thanks dear teacher.
    Can the following analysis be correct?
    Base sentence:
    I am asking for someone to give me a chance.
    Now, If I want to use the relative clause:
    All that I am asking for is someone to give me a chance.
    And If I want to use the above in passive sense:
    All that I am asking for is to be given a chance by someone.
    or
    All that I am asking for is to be given a chance by someone.

    Now, the structure "Ask for somebody to do something" cannot be found in any dictionaries, so I don't know if the above analysis is correct or not?
    So interested in learning English.

  5. nininaz's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by teechar View Post
    Take a look at explanation #2.2 for "ask" as a verb in the link below.

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ask

    If you still need help, post back.
    I knew what 'ask for' mean. What I meant by posting that question was that this structure " Ask for someone to do something" is not usual structure.
    So interested in learning English.

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    #6

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    to ask for somebody to do something is not correct English. It is an incorrect confusion of the two structures:

    to ask for something
    to ask somebody to do something


    Be careful you don't mix them. Your example sentence uses the first one. In your sentence:

    Quote Originally Posted by nininaz View Post
    I am asking for someone to give me a chance.
    the "someone to give me a chance" is the 'something' part.

    (Your analysis is good, by the way.)

  7. Phaedrus's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    to ask for somebody to do something is not correct English
    That structure is correct, actually, with the meaning "to ask that somebody do something." Notice that the lower clause is very naturally passivized: "to ask for something to be done." Nininaz's sentence:
    "All I am asking for is to be given a chance."
    should lose the "for." It should read: "All I am asking is to be given a chance." That sentence is a kind of cleft of "I am (only) asking to be given a chance." "For" would be used if the lower clause had a subject different from the subject of the matrix clause, as would be the case if the lower clause were active rather than passive: "I am (only) asking for them to give me a chance." / "All I am asking is for them to give me a chance."

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    #8

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    That structure is correct, actually, with the meaning "to ask that somebody do something."
    Right. I thought it might be too complicated for nininaz to mention this.

    Nininaz's sentence: should lose the "for." It should read: "All I am asking is to be given a chance." That sentence is a kind of cleft of "I am (only) asking to be given a chance." "For" would be used if the lower clause had a subject different from the subject of the matrix clause, as would be the case if the lower clause were active rather than passive: "I am (only) asking for them to give me a chance." / "All I am asking is for them to give me a chance."
    I think the sentence needs for to complete its sense. I don't like I'm asking to be given a chance, even though many people I think would say it. If you ask something, the something is the thing you're asking, i.e. a question. If you ask for something, the something is the thing you want, e.g. a chance.

    I agree that the preferred active structure is to ask for somebody to do something. So, even though the original is clearly intelligible, there are three ways, then, in which I would improve it:

    All I'm asking is for you to give me a chance.
    All I'm asking is that you give me a chance.
    All I want is to be given a chance.

  9. Phaedrus's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    I think the sentence needs for to complete its sense. I don't like I'm asking to be given a chance, even though many people I think would say it.
    Surely you wouldn't say, * I'm asking for to be given a chance . What if we changed the progressive to the simple? I ask to be given a chance.

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    #10

    Re: Ask for something (structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Surely you wouldn't say, * I'm asking for to be given a chance .
    No, I definitely would not say that.

    What if we changed the progressive to the simple? I ask to be given a chance.
    I think that's acceptable, yes, as is the progressive form. I'm just saying I don't like it so I would phrase it in a different way, that's all.

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