RE: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

[monsterjazzlicks]

RE: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

Hi folks,

Last week I started a thread of which loosely asked some questions relating to grammar/vocabulary in relation to writing a story which incorporates U.S. dialogue. The question arose because I am British. I thought it wise to start a more dedicated and focused thread (for fear of the original question slipping slightly off-topic).

I was looking on Amazon and wondered if there was anything published on there which might assist me understanding and being able to write (as a U.K. resident) in an American voice?:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_g...words=american+dialect&ie=UTF8&qid=1497790174
​

One of the books (by Paul Meler) has a 30 minute CD included.

The context of the story is two convicts who are getting released from a Californian jail, and the main body of the story relates to their actions when back on the streets.

Many thanks in advance for any kind assistance offered here.

Best,

Paul

 

[andrewg927]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

I have a question for you. Why do you want to write American dialogue? Is it just for fun or do you intend to write a book for American audience?

 

[monsterjazzlicks]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

I have a question for you. Why do you want to write American dialogue? Is it just for fun or do you intend to write a book for American audience?

Perhaps you did not see my mentions in an earlier threads that I am only at pre-GCSE level. So, yes, it is for 'fun' (i.e. I am not a 'professional') and to try and improve upon what basic skills I currently have. There is no book to be published at the other end! Ha ha.

Most of what I read, watch and (musically) listen to is American. I wanted to try something new and stretch out a bit.

I was looking through many books in my collection tonight and, from what I saw, the writing was not massively different to English. I would say that the narration parts (ie. 'third person') actually seemed like the American authors were trying to sound British! But, as GoesStation pointed out, there are specific words (eg. slang) which where (as far as he/she was concerned) dead giveaways on my part.

 

[andrewg927]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

I plead ignorance but what is GCSE? I have seen a few of your posts but I don't follow closely. And I don't think British and American English are very different. I never have difficulty reading a Bristish novel as I suppose you have no issue reading an American novel either. The difference is probably in little details. Let's say you want to write about a character who lives in New Orleans, it's only convincing if you are familiar with the scene, where the shops are, what kind of fauna and flora that are unique to the city, etc. Unfortunately, you can only know that sort of detail if you have lived in the city for a while.

 

[monsterjazzlicks]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

GCSE is the 'level' of English (and all other subjects [e.g. Maths, Science, etc]) which teenagers of between the ages of 14 and 16 take when they are at high-school. So in their final two years. If they pass, then they are awarded (say) a 'GCSE English' qualification (with the achieved grade - which ranges from 1-9). Therefore, a top 'A*' pupil would achieve 'GCSE English Grade 9'.

I understand what you are saying about having not lived in the area/country of which you are writing about. However, I have seen/read a few interviews in which writers have been highly commended on the fact that they have written a most convincing book based in a setting where they have never visited before. Most of these people have either studied the region via 'Google Earth' and/or watched 'You Tube' videos (those stupid ones where someone drives/rides around a city all day with a camera filming the whole laborious tour!), or else they have a qualification such as a degree in (say) 'German Social Studies'. I am not saying I am qualified, nor am I saying this is a method I would follow; I just mean it has been done successfully on a number of occasions.

 

[andrewg927]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

You remind me of my friend. She is a professional writer and she frequently writes about characters in Sicily. Granted, she has visited Italy a dozen times but she only writes for American audience. People like me who read her books are amazed at the level of details she recalls from her trips but I can't say the same applies if an Italian reads her books.

 

[monsterjazzlicks]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

I was quite tickled to learn I actually reminded you of someone you know!

To be honest, I find most other places in the world to be rather boring in comparison to the U.S!

I have to make a quick correction here: I did actually go on holiday to Vegas about 15 years ago for one week. But I did not consciously absorb any of the culture or it's people. I mean, I basically did not speak to anyone (other than my girlfriend of course!) and we mostly hung out in the casinos playing on the slots. Plus, I have only been trying to learn about 'writing' since January last and so it was not something I even considered during my visit back in 2004.

Secondly, I have worked alongside many Americans on and off throughout my career. So I have a reasonable 'feel' for this nationality. However, once again, at the time (a 15 year period on and off) I knew zilch nor had any interest in trying to put a story together. I was interested ('obsessed' you might even say!) with other things.

Everyone (well not everyone, but you know what I mean!) has always told me that I should write a book one day. This has been going on since I was about age 30. But they insist the book be about my life-experiences. I have thought about it but I don't really want to do that. I suppose it would cover the full spectrum of 'dark' to 'comical' but it would mean me reliving those experiences again (which I am not sure I want to do. I do have (what I consider to be) a fairly good idea for a true-account book, but again it is personal and I don't really want to start digging up morbid memories again. It would be (emotionally) akin to going through a whole DIVORCE again!

If I had the money and opportunity, I would like to spend two years in the U.S. and travel to different states. I would probably spend about a month to six weeks in each one. I know which states I would like to visit. I would go alone and just try to hang-out with locals in coffee shops and talk about every day things. I would not drive or fly, I would travel from state to state via train or bus. I think it would be a very interesting experience; I mean I can't see why it wouldn't be?!

By the way, I have just added a 'signature'!

 

[Skrej]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

You're talking about writing, not speaking, so aside from some of the vocabulary differences, 'AmE' isn't going to be so noticeably different from BrE as the spoken variants. Much of the accents that make regional variants so noticeable are of course lost when converted to text, unless you're trying to write dialogue. Even then, it's hard to accurately convey a particular accent in text. There are a few grammatical differences (for example 'have' vs 'take') and uses of verb tenses, and even some minor prepositional changes, but those are fewer in number than the vocabulary. Even the vocabulary differences aren't really all that many in number.

Much of Meier's work and research is available online at the IDEA project, where you can hear people from all over the word reading selected passages in their variant of English. What's neat about it is that there are two speaking samples from each candidate - one from a standardized reading passage, and one where the candidate is asked to speak about personal memories, usually from their childhood or their upbringing, etc. Some, but not all, have phonological IPA transcriptions.

There is also demographic information about each candidate's age, education, occupation, and regional upbringing. You'll often notice how some people may adopt a more neutral accent when reading a story and then switch to slightly different dialect when recalling a story of their youth.

For strictly AmE dialects, consult the DARE project - Dialects of American Regional English. A subscription is required for the majority of that information.

Again, those are primarily for speaking.

If you're not familiar with Neil Gaiman, you might read some of his books, especially American Gods. He was born and raised in England but moved to the US 20 some years ago. Some of his earlier works (especially whenever he collaborated with Terry Pratchett) have more Anglicisms in them than his later works. American Gods was written about the US while living in the US. It's probably about as good an example of an English author writing in "American" as you'll find.

There's even a item on his FAQ page (about halfway down the page from 'Amanda') on his website addressing some of his Anglicisms in American Gods. To be honest, I didn't even catch them, as I was more engrossed in the plot than the grammar. Unless I see something blatant like 'petrol' instead of 'gas', or 'boot' instead of 'trunk', it's not likely to register with me that the author's likely English instead of American.

As for your travel plans to the US - one of the major differences you'll find is that trains won't offer you the travel opportunities they do in England. Passenger trains aren't widely used in the US, and are mostly limited to a few major commuter routes. Buses have also really died out over the last 20 years or so. The personal automobile reigns supreme in the US as the primary mode of transportation, ever since its introduction. We Americans have something of a love affair with our personal vehicles, and public transportation generally takes a backseat to personal vehicles outside of the larger cities. Even people who do regularly use public transportation will likely still have their own vehicle. It's a part of our culture, and a rite of passage as a kid- getting your license and your first car.

As for coffee shops, in the US they tend to attract a fairly similar crowd, or type of people. Nothing against them, but if you're really that interested in meeting Americans from all walks of life, I wouldn't consider them as good places to meet a wide variety of socioeconomic groups. Again, they're mostly a thing of bigger cities.

 

[andrewg927]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

Haha, it's rare to hear someone say that most places in the world are boring compared to the US. Most people I know talk about wanting to travel to Europe, Australia, etc and those who have always talk about how they want to go back.

I think it is a good idea to talk with locals when you have a chance to visit the US. Coffee shops are okay in my opinion especially because you want to get to know regional differences. As Skrej pointed out, you can't reliably travel across state lines by train or bus. However, that's something I'm sure you will plan beforehand and it's possible depending on where you want to visit.

 

[Rover_KE]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

You should change your signature. It will not be understood by people who have never heard of GCSE.

Those who do know what it means will assume you are of school age.

 

[monsterjazzlicks]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

Andrew - I have never had any interest whatsoever in traveling to discover more of Europe (quite possibly for the simple reason that I was born here). I have had zilch interest as far back as I can remember. And when going to France/Germany on school trips I can distinctly remember counting the days until I would be going back home! Hence, I never studied foreign language at school. But I do not wish to sound arrogant here or show any disrespect - I am just being honest about what interests me and what does not.

I had massive opportunities when living in London for seven years to meet/talk to Americans. But, like most British people living in London, I kept my head down and never spoke to anyone! (it's just the way it is in the capital).

A friend of mine told me (about 20 years ago) that they once caught the train from Michigan to California, and that the journey took either 3 or 5 days. I am pretty certain that it was one single train journey without having to change en-route. However, this was some time back and I may be incorrect.

 

[monsterjazzlicks]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

You should change your signature. It will not be understood by people who have never heard of GCSE.

Those who do know what it means will assume you are of school age.

I have explained (see post #5 above) what 'GCSE' is for anyone who is unfamiliar with this qualification. If someone really wants to delve deeper into it's meaning then they are most welcome to ask me, or else run a quick search on Google (which would take 30 seconds).

I have stated I am a 'mature' student (in my 'signature') so as to cause any confusion over my age. For your information, there are thousands of U.K. adult learners who are in the process of gaining a qualification in later-life (and for a variety of reasons!). Therefore, it would be inaccurate to generalize and assume, just because it is a qualification taken predominantly by pre-school-leavers, that everyone is of the age 16 and below.

I have also checked the 'display birth-date' in 'my settings' in case anyone wishes to check upon my age. Secondly, I think my avatar clearly confirms that I am not a school-child!

 

[GoesStation]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

A friend of mine told me (about 20 years ago) that they once caught the train from Michigan to California, and that the journey took either 3 or 5 days. I am pretty certain that it was one single train journey without having to change en-route. However, this was some time back and I may be incorrect.

You can indeed take a train from a few cities in Michigan to California with a change in Chicago. I think you have to spend the night in Chicago. Train travel in the US can be a lot of fun, but you have to understand that you can only get to a few places, and usually on an inconvenient, sporadic schedule. For example, if you want to take a train east from Cincinnati, Ohio, you have to board at 3:00 am or so (if it happens to be on time, which is rare) on one of the three days a week that it operates.

There's regular train service on the west coast and in the northeast corridor from Washington, DC to Boston and onward to Montreal.

 

[monsterjazzlicks]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

You can indeed take a train from a few cities in Michigan to California with a change in Chicago. I think you have to spend the night in Chicago. Train travel in the US can be a lot of fun, but you have to understand that you can only get to a few places, and usually on an inconvenient, sporadic schedule. For example, if you want to take a train east from Cincinnati, Ohio, you have to board at 3:00 am or so (if it happens to be on time, which is rare) on one of the three days a week that it operates.

Very interesting, thanks.

Ha ha, the reliability factor of U.S. trains can not possibly be any worse than here in the U.K. In fact anything to do with travel/transport is utterly dreadful here!

Those 'connection' times sound totally bizarre. As you may (or may not) know, everything here in the U.K. goes to sleep at midnight!

 

[GoesStation]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

Ha ha, the reliability factor of U.S. trains can not possibly be any worse than here in the U.K. In fact anything to do with travel/transport is utterly dreadful here!

I hate to disillusion you, MJL, but in fact you live in railroad paradise. I know that British passengers are plagued by delays, but they are nothing compared to those suffered over here. And at least you have a national passenger rail network. Most of ours had disappeared by 1975.

 

[monsterjazzlicks]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

Skrej - got around to you finally!

Yes, I am asking about 'vocabulary' as regards to 'writing'. And with a view to writing dialogue in a text/story (I mean it's not a script for a 'play' or anything like that!).

I was not aware that Meler had a dedicated site, thanks. I saw the book/CD on Amazon when I was browsing for related items yesterday. As far as I remember, there were no reviews of the book (or confirmed purchases). Anyway, I will definitely give the 'IDEA' site a look, cheers. New to me also is the 'DARE' site which does sound interesting. Anything is helpful at my stage! Ha ha.

I will have a look on Amazon for the Neil Gaiman book ('American Gods') you recommend. Terry Pratchett is very popular over here, of course, although he is not an author I follow.

The U.K. has had problems with trains since time began. The main problem being they built all brand new trains 20 years ago and then realized they had not updated the tracks. And so the gauge was totally wrong - which set everything back another decade (maybe longer!). Trains are ALWAYS delayed and break-down. The train companies are famous for blaming "leaves on the tracks"!

I only thought of coffee shops as a good starting point for meeting people because very often (during busy times) you share a table. And so it seemed logical that it would make a good conversational environment. However, as I said earlier, in London you would be lucky to get more than a couple of words out of anyone!

 

[andrewg927]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

If you go to Detroit or LA (I just assume this since you mentioned MI, CA) I doubt people will be in a chatty mood with a stranger. You might want to explore other smaller cities where people do have time to chat and not have to be on run all the time.

 

[GoesStation]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

I disagree. You'll find people to chat with anywhere you go. For example, I recently had a very nice conversation in Los Angeles with a Dutch guy who lived in the neighborhood where I was waiting for an optician's office to open.

 

[andrewg927]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

For 15 minutes or less (and that's generous, usually the conversation only lasts 5 minutes) perhaps but if he wants to really get into the culture, language, etc it would require an extended conversation which simply can't take place in an doctor's office's waiting area.

 

[GoesStation]

Re: Help With U.S. Dialect/Slang Question

We were on a bench on the sidewalk, actually. He seemed to want to continue chatting, but I had somewhere else to be so I had to end the conversation.

I've had a number of long, pleasant chats with strangers in Los Angeles. While drinking a coffee at the Coffee Bean in Pacific Palisades, an older man sat down with me. It turned out his daughter had been in my French class in high school. We shared stories about the terrific French teacher his daughter and I had shared. I was, again, the one who cut the conversation short.

Another time, my father and I got in a conversation with a French woman at the Malibu Lagoon. She asked us for advice about where to visit in the area. We conversed for quite a while, until looming fog persuaded me it was time to head home.