Page 3 of 5 First 1 2 3 4 5 Last
Results 21 to 30 of 44

Thread: French words

  1. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 9,269
    #21

    Re: French words

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    Part of this depends, I think, one whether or not we consider a word that was originally French to be English now.
    Agreed. This is a key point, I think. Nobody these days attempts to pronounce restaurant or menu in a French way.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    I've noticed that in general, British English speakers make less effort to pronounce French words à la française than American English speakers. This is particularly evident in syllabic emphasis, where the British nearly always emphasize the first syllable of two-syllable words, while Americans emphasize the second.
    Interesting. Can you think of any more examples?

  2. Moderator
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 15,145
    #22

    Re: French words

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Agreed. This is a key point, I think. Nobody these days attempts to pronounce restaurant or menu in a French way.



    Interesting. Can you think of any more examples?
    Chapeau and chateau, following the same pattern as gateau, come to mind. I've noticed many others from time to time, but of course I can't think of any right now.

    I actually remember, as a very little boy, changing my pronunciation of restaurant. My mother learned spoken English in post-war London, and had an English accent overlaid on her native Polish accent when she arrived in the United States. My father has lamented her loss of the English component over time, and I think I witnessed some of the last of that transition when she unsilenced the final consonants of that word.

    I still occasionally hear Brits nasalize its last syllable but I think that pronunciation has largely faded.
    Last edited by GoesStation; 04-Feb-2018 at 16:34.
    I am not a teacher.

  3. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 9,269
    #23

    Re: French words

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    I've noticed many others from time to time, but of course I can't think of any right now.
    How about cliché? In BrE, most (I think) would put stress on the first syllable. How about AmE speakers?

  4. emsr2d2's Avatar
    Moderator
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2009
    • Posts: 51,335
    #24

    Re: French words

    If you listen to the 5 pronunciations of this French word but under the English language section of Forvo, you'll hear one inexplicably awful one, two with the stress on the first syllable and two with the stress on the second. I put the stress on the second.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

  5. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 9,269
    #25

    Re: French words

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    If you listen to the 5 pronunciations of this French word but under the English language section of Forvo, you'll hear one inexplicably awful one, two with the stress on the first syllable and two with the stress on the second. I put the stress on the second.
    Which one is the inexplicably awful one?

    When I listen to those five, only the second one seems to put the stress on the final syllable. The third one sounds quite balanced between the first and final syllables, and the others seem to be stressing the first.

    When I'm speaking French I would naturally stress the second, but when speaking English, the first.

  6. emsr2d2's Avatar
    Moderator
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2009
    • Posts: 51,335
    #26

    Re: French words

    Weird! Maybe the page hadn't loaded properly when I first went to it. The first pronunciation was, when I first listened, almost incoherent and sounded as if he was saying either "cliclé" or "chiché". It sounds much more normal now. Sorry!
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

  7. Moderator
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 15,145
    #27

    Re: French words

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    How about cliché? In BrE, most (I think) would put stress on the first syllable. How about AmE speakers?
    That's a perfect example. Americans stress the second syllable. I think it's a nearly universal rule for French loanwords of two syllables in American English.
    I am not a teacher.

  8. Roman55's Avatar
    Key Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Italy
      • Current Location:
      • France

    • Join Date: Feb 2014
    • Posts: 2,634
    #28

    Re: French words

    Yes, I think so too. And I can't stand it. There is no tonic stress on cliché, or any two syllable word ending in an accented vowel in French. The accent changes its pronunciation but does not put syllabic stress onto it.

    As for the word entrepreneur, it is widely used in French, and its pronunciation in AmE is particularly horrible.
    I am not a teacher

  9. VIP Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 15,469
    #29

    Re: French words

    Reading this thread and listening to those forvo pronunciations made me suddenly aware that I do not know for certain how I would pronounce cliché if I were to offer my own version for forvo. I think (but I am not sure) that my own natural pronunciation is a very English kleeshay (/ˈkliːʃeɪ/).

    However, when I am with people who (like me) can speak French tolerably well and who have (Heaven help us) taught French, I think I produce something like the version produced by fluxine.

  10. VIP Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 15,469
    #30

    Re: French words

    To side track yet again - and why not? This is a fun thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    In Italian restaurants, I have to bite my tongue whenever I hear anyone order "spaghetti boll-uh-nays" (rather than "bol-o-nyaiz-ay") or "bruh-shetter" (rather than "bruce-ketter").
    I do think that some of us who know how 'foreign' dishes are pronounced by speakers in the countries from which these dishes come can be rather snobby about this, as ems was there - and as I can be, I hasten to add.

    My current wife is the best cook of any of the many wives I've been through, and can produce authentic dishes from all over the world. But, our divorce comes a week closer every time she serves me a (to-die-for) tagliatelle dish and tells me that she has produced one of my favourite dishes, 'tag-lee-a-telly'.

Page 3 of 5 First 1 2 3 4 5 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •