Question about Assimilation

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tarusan

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Just a quick question about Assimilation.
If one word ends with a /t/ sound and the other starts with a /m/, /b/ or a /p/ sound, does the assimilated sound become /p/ for all of them?

Like the examples below:

- Flight Plan
- Sit Back
- Private Property
- Circuit Board
- Cat Burglar
- Private Member
- Light Music

Is the middle sound /p/ for all of them or does it change according to the starting sound of the second word? /m/ or /b/?
 

GoesStation

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When I pronounce those word pairs, I reduce the final /t/ sound to a brief stop, then pronounce the following consonant as I would if it were the first word in a string. In other words, the initial consonant in the second word is not affected by the final /t/ in the first.
 

tarusan

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So what I understand is that we duplicate the first consonant sound of the second word and simply not voice the /t/ consonant sound?

Cat Burglar would be /ˈkæ(b) bɜːglə /
Private Property would be /ˈpraɪvɪ(p) prɒpəti/
Light music would be /laɪ(m) ˈmjuːzɪk/

Is this right?
 

jutfrank

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Is the middle sound /p/ for all of them

No.

or does it change according to the starting sound of the second word? /m/ or /b/?

It's rather that it disappears into a stop.

What you've got here is not reallly assimilation. Assimilation is when a sound changes in order to allow the following sound to flow more fluently from it. In these examples here, the /t/ sound is not changing, but simply being represented by a glottal stop.

You might argue that the /t/ is being assimilated into a glottal stop but I would say that it makes better sense to say that these are cases of elision of the /t/.
 
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jutfrank

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So what I understand is that we duplicate the first consonant sound of the second word and simply not voice the /t/ consonant sound? Is this right?

No, there's no duplication. But there's a sustain (keeping the lips together) before the release of the following bilabials.
 

tarusan

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Is there a good book or a website that teaches Phonology and Connected Speech in detail with examples? I've found some websites but they are not detailed enough. What sources would you recommend?

Also another quick question:

Could you give me examples for
Complete, Partial, and Intermediate Assimilation?
 
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jutfrank

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The assimilation is total in ten mice /tem mais/, where the /n/ sound is now identical with the /m/ which influenced it.

I think that's what could be considered is happening here with cat burglar, etc.

For more examples of partial, total and intermediate assimilation, see here:
https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/54323/type-of-assimilation

For a nice chart showing /t/ pronounced as a glottal stop, see here:
https://pronuncian.com/assimilation-linking-t-as-glottal-stop/

For book recommendations? Well, there's a wealth of good ones out there. I suggest you do a bit of an online shop to find one that best suits your needs.
 

tarusan

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GoesStation

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I don't think any of those tendencies work in my dialect, except perhaps for number 6.
 

jutfrank

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AngelinaG

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The initial consonant in the second word is not affected by the final /t/ in the first.
 

jutfrank

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It is rather that the first sound is affected by anticipation of the second.

Yes, but interestingly this is not always the case. Let me explain how I hear it:

There are two ways you could pronounce the single word 'cat':

1) With a final /t/
2) With a final glottal stop.

I don't want to say that one way is more or less correct; suffice to say that both are quite natural across all varieties of English.

So when pronouncing cat burglar: If you would normally pronounce cat as 1), then some kind of assimilation has taken place. But if you would normally use 2), then no assimilation can be considered as having taken place, in which case the first sound (if you consider the stop as a sound) remains unaffected by the subsequent /b/.

Whichever way you look at it, the final sound of cat does certainly not become a /p/.
 

jutfrank

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Actually, for many native speakers, the final sound of 'cat' in 'cat burglar' is not pronounced as /t/. The tongue does not touch the alveolar ridge as it does when we produce /t/. Instead, the lips close in anticipation of the following bilabial /b/ This sound is not exploded, but the lips are in the position for a /p/ sound, as is the tongue. Phoneticians refer to this as 'assimilation'.

If you normally pronounce the final /t/ of 'cat' as a glottal stop, the lips will normally close in anticipation of the /b/ before the vocal folds close in the production of 'cat burglar'. . Once again, the vocal organs are in the position of a /p/ sound. In that one sound has changed into another as the result of a following sound, this is also assimilation.

I agree but what do you mean by "in the position of a /p/ sound"? A /p/ is only a /p/ after it has been exploded. Doesn't it make as much sense to say that it's in the position of a /b/ sound? What are you suggesting is the difference between /p/ and /b/ in regards to the position of the vocal organs?
 

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There are two ways you could pronounce the single word 'cat':

1) With a final /t/
2) With a final glottal stop.

I don't want to say that one way is more or less correct; suffice to say that both are quite natural across all varieties of English.
Not in mine. I'd only pronounce the /t/ if I were emphasizing it for some reason.
 

jutfrank

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Unexploded sounds are still regarded by phoneticians as sounds.

If a sound is unexploded, it is not yet articulated, and therefore cannot properly be considered a sound. You might call it a potential sound but a sound is not a sound if it hasn't been sounded. It's really a reference to the position of the organs.

The word 'cat' with an unexploded sound at the end is audibly different from /kæ/ when it is not followed by such a sound.

I must disagree here, too, that cat would have an unexploded sound at the end if it is not followed by anything. Have I misunderstood what you mean?

The lips and tongue are in the same position, but the vocal folds vibrate for /b/; they do not for/p/.

Yes, exactly. In cat burglar, the first sound of burglar is voiced. That's part of my point.

If you say 'He took the cap' and 'He took the cap' with unexploded consonants at the end, you will probably hear the difference yourself.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean these are two natural ways of pronouncing?
 
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jutfrank

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Piscean—I don't want to labour the point or once again or exclude others by dominating a thread, but I'd really like to understand what you're saying. I think it's possible we may have misunderstood each other.

Did you try saying the two sentences I suggested?
If you say 'He took the cap' and 'He took the cab' with unexploded consonants at the end, you will probably hear the difference yourself.

I tried, but for me the difference of cap/cab lies only in the vowel. If I try to deliberately not release, then my lips and tongue naturally fall into identical positions. I don't think I'm getting what you're trying to demonstrate. Would you mind trying again?

In a stand-alone sentence such as 'I have a cat', most speakers of BrE do not release the final /t/. It is unexploded.

Okay, I think I see. What you're calling an unexploded sound I was calling a stop, right? So we're pronouncing it in the same way. Or do you mean by 'unexploded /t/' that the tongue necessarily settles on the alveolar ridge? It doesn't have to. When I say I have a cat, my tongue finishes somewhere near the bottom of my mouth.
 

jutfrank

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As with a couple of our discussions on the terminology of grammar, jutfrank, I think we have wandered too far away from the original question. if we are going to discuss such points of phonetics/phonology, I think we need a separate thread for each topic.

Fair enough. I figured tarusan wouldn't mind. And we are still kind of on topic.

As someone who teaches pronunciation, I'm by no means unfamliar with phonological processes so I do feel compelled to give my opinion on the information quoted in post #10. It may be loosely representative of what some in the field may think but I think it's too unsophisticated to be of much use. In fact, number 1 is, in my opinion, simply misleading.
 
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jutfrank

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Thus the /t/ at the end of 'foot' (/fʊt/) changes to /p/ when followed by /b/ in the word 'football' (/ˈfʊp.bɔːl/)

(Roach et al, 2003.xiii)

Specifically, this is what I disagree with so let's try to stick to this example.

In my opinion it's not accurate to suggest that there's a /p/ sound in the middle of the word football. Don't get me wrong—I understand the process that is trying to be described, it's just that I don't think that's how best to describe it.

As I understand it, the /p/ here is understood to be unexploded or unreleased. What does it mean to say that the /p/ sound is unreleased? Does it not just refer to the way the lips come together before the stop in anticipation of the /b/? Or is it that this /p/ is just a way of representing the stop itself?

Whichever it is, there is not a /p/ sound in the middle of football, which is what I think some people may understand from the rules given on the webpage which I said was misleading.
 

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Not for me. For example, in "flight plan", my tongue still becomes positioned as if preparing to utter a full "t", but I articulate a glottal stop instead; or at least the previous vowel/diphthong is shortened.
 
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