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    #31

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post
    I think we share the same understanding except you don't like to call it adjective but prefer to call it a noun modifying another noun.

    No, we do not share the same understanding. 'Adjectives' and 'noun' are the names we give to a word classes or, if you prefer parts of speech. 'Modifier' is the name we give to a function. Both nouns and adjectives can function as/act as/be modifiers; that does not mean that a noun can act/as/function as/be an adjective. The fact that a razor blade and a pair of scissors can both function as paper cutters does not mean that a razor blade acts as/functions as/is a knife. A razor blade is a razor blade whether its function is shaving, cutting or separating lines of coke. A noun is a noun whether its function is subject, direct object, indirect object or modifier.

    That is all I have to say on this. You are, of course, at liberty to disagree with my arguments, but you are mistaken if you think we share the same understanding.

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    #32

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post
    If you quote "Both nouns and adjectives can act/function as noun modifiers." then you are literally saying the same thing as I have been saying all along. hmm....
    I have just quoted your statement. That doesn't mean that I agree with it; in online forums, we quote a statement to which we are replying to make it easier to follow the thread.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #33

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    I have just quoted your statement. That doesn't mean that I agree with it; in online forums, we quote a statement to which we are replying to make it easier to follow the thread.
    That was a typo. "quote" was suppose to be wrote. Now it makes sense. It came out wrong.

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    #34

    Re: object of preposition

    This is what my grammar book says:

    Adjectives

    An adjective is a word that modifies, or describes, a noun or pronoun. An adjective can tell what kind, which one, how many, or how much. Examples include strong, this, three, and less. The articles a, an, and the are also adjectives. In addition, possessive nouns and pronouns can be considered adjectives because they describe nouns. Examples of possessive nouns are children’s, adults’, and Mrs. Dean’s.

    A preposition is a word that indicates how a noun or pronoun relates to some other word in its sentence. Examples include before, throughout, and with. Some prepositions are made up of more than one word, such as in front of and except for. A prepositional phrase is made up of a preposition, its object, and any modifiers of the object. Examples of prepositional phrases are “before the storm,” “during heavy rain,” and “in front of an old barn.” Prepositional phrases may act as adjectives or as adverbs.


    I think the reason for saying it’s not an adjective is because the noun and adjective share no association with each other in terms of meaning, other than that they modify/act.


    Nouns and adjective act and modify words the same way as each other. The noun Emma is modifying another noun just like an adjective would. I don’t understand why this is not the same? Can anyone shed some light on this?

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    #35

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post
    This is what my grammar book says:
    Please tell us its title and author.

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    #36

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post
    Nouns and adjective act and modify words the same way as each other. The noun Emma is modifying another noun just like an adjective would. I don’t understand why this is not the same? Can anyone shed some light on this?
    I have no light to shed, sorry.

    I do have some sympathy for your way of understanding, though. There are many practical grammar resources out there that would state quite explicitly that an adjective is defined by what it does. And I think that, generally, this is how many English teachers think— if a word is modifying a noun phrase, then it's an adjective.

    Piscean's view is the one held by respected grammarians, and so for your purposes, given the kind of analysis that you're trying to do, is a view that you might want to adopt.

    But on the other hand, if you just want to practise analysing how the parts of sentences fit together to express meaning, then it doesn't matter whether you call it an adjective or modifier. It's just a label.

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    #37

    Re: object of preposition

    I just finished up reading about possessive nouns.

    "Emma" is a possessive noun. For grammarians it's a genitive case because there's no ownership.

    Here in the sentence, Emma is functioning as an adjective modifying the noun class. To be technical, it's still a noun and adjectives can modify Emma because it's a noun type.

    That that now concludes my understanding, anyone disagree?

    By the way, in some of the material showing it as an adjective it's because it's acting as an adjective.
    Last edited by HeartShape; 22-Apr-2018 at 19:56.

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    #38

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    Please tell us its title and author.
    I don't think it's important. The book "Sentence Diagramming for Middle School".

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    #39

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post
    I don't think it's important.
    It is important to know about books from which ideas are quoted so that we can assess the reliability of the information. A book about English grammar written by an internationally recognised authority is likely to be more reliable than one written by a non-native-speaking student trying to make some money.

    Detailed explanations of some of the ideas I summarise can be found in:

    Huddleston, Rodney (1984), An Introduction to the Grammar of English. Cambridge: CUP
    Huddleston, Rodney and Geoffrey Pullum (2002), The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language. Cambridge: CUP
    Aarts, Bas (2011), Oxford Modern English Grammar. Oxford: OUP

    Briefer notes can be found in:

    McArthur, Tom (ed) (1992), The Oxford Companion to the English Language. Oxford, OUP.

    These books are unlikely to be of much use to people wishing to learn how to communicate effectively in English, but they are valuable to those who are interested in English grammar per se. The first one is invaluable for those wishing to know what terminology is used by many modern grammarians, and why there are now labels unfamiilar to people who may have last learnt about grammar at school some decades ago. It also explains why some of the traditional terminology is now used in a different way.

    That book itself is now over thirty years old, but many of the ideas mentioned in it are now widely accepted and taught - in the academic world at least.

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    #40

    Re: object of preposition

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post
    I don't think it's important. The book "Sentence Diagramming for Middle School".
    We'll be the judges of what's important. You still haven't told us the author.

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