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  1. Key Member
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    #1

    I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    a. The city has changed greatly since 2012. [O]
    b. I have changed my address since last year.[O]

    c. I have graduated from college since 2011. []
    d. I have graduated from college since then. [O]

    (Quoted from an English grammar book)
    ---------------
    Why is (c) wrong? Do you agree with it? Could you tell me the reason?

    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

  2. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    c. is not wrong. It means that the graduation happened some time between 2011 and now.

  3. Phaedrus's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    c. is not wrong. It means that the graduation happened some time between 2011 and now.
    I think (c) suggests that the speaker's graduating from college happened again and again between 2011 and now.

    The issue seems to relate to the fact that "graduate from college" is an achievement in the technical aspectual sense.

    Interestingly, the sentence loses that absurd suggestion (at least for me) when the "since"-phrase is relocated:

    (c1) I have, since 2011, graduated from college.

    There the "since"-phrase is parenthetical -- nonrestrictive, as it were. The following sentence also seems to work:

    (c2) Since 2011, I have graduated from college (among other things).

  4. Raymott's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    It also gives the correct meaning when the correct intonation and context is taken into account.

  5. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I think (c) suggests that the speaker's graduating from college happened again and again between 2011 and now.
    That doesn't occur to me at all and I don't really understand where this repetition comes from, for you. It's a single achievement. If it were repeated, wouldn't we say I've been graduating from college since 2011?

  6. Phaedrus's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    It's a single achievement. If it were repeated, wouldn't we say I've been graduating from college since 2011?
    With the present perfect progressive, the repetition would be undeniable. I'm not saying that I think your reading of (c) is impossible -- only that there is another, competing reading, with the "since"-phrase in that position, that makes your reading hard to hear. How do you feel about the following sentence?

    (e) He has reached the finish line since ten o'clock this morning.

  7. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    How do you feel about the following sentence?

    (e) He has reached the finish line since ten o'clock this morning.
    It's not at all a likely thing to say. Much less so than I've graduated from college since 2011.

    I still don't get how you get to the interpretation of a repeated action. Are you suggesting your sentence above could also be interpreted as repeated?

    By the way, what do you mean here?:

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    The issue seems to relate to the fact that "graduate from college" is an achievement in the technical aspectual sense.

  8. Phaedrus's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    By the way, what do you mean here?:

    Originally Posted by Phaedrus

    The issue seems to relate to the fact that "graduate from college" is an achievement in the technical aspectual sense.
    I mean that it's an "achievement" in the sense of being a verb phrase that represents a situation as dynamic (non-stative) and punctual (non-durative).

    Both "graduate from college" and "reach the finish line" are achievements in that sense.

    I think your reading requires that "since 2011" be interpreted as already given information, so that the sentence is interpreted like (d), with "since then."

    Why would anyone say "I have graduated from college since 2011" if 2011 weren't already given in the context and the graduation occurred, say, in 2014?

  9. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I mean that it's an "achievement" in the sense of being a verb phrase that represents a situation as dynamic (non-stative) and punctual (non-durative).
    Sure, but I was wondering how that causes you to arrive at the interpretation of repeatedness. I don't mean to unnecessarily push the point—I'm just curious because I can't get there.

    I think your reading requires that "since 2011" be interpreted as already given information, so that the sentence is interpreted like (d), with "since then."
    Yes, exactly.

  10. Phaedrus's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: I have graduated from college since then/2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I'm just curious because I can't get there.

    Yes, exactly.
    Can you get there if you force yourself not to assume that "since 2011" is already given information?

    Imagine the sentence as if it were just as it appears, a sentence standing all by itself outside of context.

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