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    #11

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post

    1. He is said to be rich

    NOT A TEACHER

    Hello, Heartshape:

    I have found some information that may interest you.

    "This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town."

    a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.
    b. He believes that the infinitive phrase describes the subject "this."

    Source: An online article by Eugene R. Moutoux entitled "Infinitives German - Latin - English"

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    #12

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    NOT A TEACHER

    Hello, Heartshape:

    I have found some information that may interest you. "This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town."

    a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.
    b. He believes that the infinitive phrase describes the subject "this."

    Source: An online article by Eugene R. Moutoux entitled "Infinitives German - Latin - English"
    Clauses don't generally function as predicatives, except in the reversible specifying construction. In your example, it's the NP "the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" that is subjective PC (predicative complement) of "be". And in the OP's example it's the AdjP "rich" that is subjective PC of "be".

    In examples like these the matrix clause is obligatorily passive, so we have "He is said to be rich" (not *"They say him to be rich").

    "Say" is a catenative verb and the subordinate infinitival clause is catenative complement of "said".

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    #13

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.
    Your source believes that this infinitive phrase is an adjective?!

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    #14

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Your source believes that this infinitive phrase is an adjective?!

    When you get time, would you read his article and let us know your opinion?

    I think that I have quoted him correctly.

    Thank you.

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    #15

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Here is the relevant paragraph:

    * * * * *
    4. Infinitives and infinitive phrases used as predicate adjectives may be preceded by forms of the verb to be, but they can also follow other linking verbs, for example, seem, appear, and certain passive verbs. Here are some examples of infinitive phrases that function as predicate adjectives:
    - He seemed to have all his ducks in a row.
    - One contestant appears to lack self-confidence.
    - The Royal Library of Alexandria is thought to have contained more than 500,000 books.
    - This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town.



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    #16

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMatthews View Post
    I disagree. Predicative complements (both subjective and objective) very rarely consist of clauses. They are virtually always NPs or AdjPs.

    As I said before, it's a catenative construction -- see my post #4 for details
    So, does the main clause of the sentence have a transitive verb or an intransitive linking verb?
    Last edited by HeartShape; 01-Dec-2018 at 23:09.

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    #17

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    - He seemed to have all his ducks in a row.
    - One contestant appears to lack self-confidence.
    - The Royal Library of Alexandria is thought to have contained more than 500,000 books.
    - This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    When you get time, would you read his article and let us know your opinion?
    Thank you, The Parser.

    I didn't read the whole article, only the part quoted above. I can easily see how the infinitive phrases above may be understood as adjectives when used as complements of seem and appear, but not at all when following that kind of passive verb. I can't imagine what concept of 'adjective' Moutoux is using here.

    I don't wish to disagree with anybody, only to learn.

    [Not a trained grammarian]

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    #18

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartShape View Post
    So, does the main clause of the sentence have a transitive verb or an intransitive linking verb?
    It’s intransitive.

    In your example, the clause "said to be rich" is passive, thus "said" is intransitive so it cannot take a direct object, of course, though it can take a by phrase: "He is said by his family to be rich".

    Note that if "to be rich" were the direct object of "said”, we would expect it to be freely replaceable with an NP, but that isn’t possible: we can’t say *“He is said rich”.

    Identifying certain non-finite clauses as catenative is preferable to calling them direct objects which have a quite different structure and distribution.

    Below is a slightly simplified tree diagram showing the category and function of each constituent. As you can see, there are two layers of subordination: The past participial clause "said to be rich" is complement of "is", and embedded within it is the infinitival clause "to be rich" serving as complement of "said".

    Click on image to enlarge it.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    #19

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMatthews View Post
    It’s intransitive.

    In your example, the clause "said to be rich" is passive, thus "said" is intransitive so it cannot take a direct object, of course, though it can take a by phrase: "He is said by his family to be rich".

    Note that if "to be rich" were the direct object of "said”, we would expect it to be freely replaceable with an NP, but that isn’t possible: we can’t say *“He is said rich”.

    Identifying certain non-finite clauses as catenative is preferable to calling them direct objects which have a quite different structure and distribution.

    Below is a slightly simplified tree diagram showing the category and function of each constituent. As you can see, there are two layers of subordination: The past participial clause "said to be rich" is complement of "is", and embedded within it is the infinitival clause "to be rich" serving as complement of "said".

    Click on image to enlarge it.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	He is said to be rich.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	64.8 KB 
ID:	3016
    Thanks for the diagram. That was really helpful. At the moment I need to digest all this information and re-evaluate something. I think there is some mistakes somewhere, so just need to peice something together. By the way, so are you saying the main verb is a linking verb, right? And just so I understand, can a linking verb have an active sentence, in terms of since there is a passive there is always an active?
    Last edited by HeartShape; 03-Dec-2018 at 01:47.

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    #20

    Re: Grammar check - He is said to be rich

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    NOT A TEACHER

    Hello, Heartshape:

    I have found some information that may interest you.

    "This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town."

    a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.
    b. He believes that the infinitive phrase describes the subject "this."

    Source: An online article by Eugene R. Moutoux entitled "Infinitives German - Latin - English"
    This is actually a good example. I might come back to this post later.

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