Grammar check - He is said to be rich

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HeartShape

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Hi,

I just want to check the following grammar analysis of mine:

1. He is said to be rich

My analysis:

i. He is said to be rich = Subject Verb Objective
ii. to be rich = Infinitive + adjective = infinitive phrase
iii. [STRIKE]to be rich = Infinitive + noun[/STRIKE]

Is the above correct?
 

Tdol

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I don't think to be rich is the object of the verb.
 

HeartShape

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I don't think to be rich is the object of the verb.

Oh. That's a possibility. What is your reason behind that answer?

Is it this?

i. He is said to be rich = Subject Verb Objective
ii. Objective = noun
 

PaulMatthews

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Hi,

I just want to check the following grammar analysis of mine:

1. He is said to be rich

My analysis:

i. He is said to be rich = Subject Verb Objective
ii. to be rich = Infinitive + adjective = infinitive phrase
iii. [STRIKE]to be rich = Infinitive + noun[/STRIKE]

Is the above correct?

"He is said to be rich."

Not quite. "Say" is a catenative verb and this is catenative construction, where "to be rich" is a subordinate infinitival clause functioning as catenative complement of "said".

Like most non-finite clauses, "to be rich" is subjectless, though the subject is understood as "he". The adjective "rich" is subjective predicative complement of "be", and the semantic (understood) subject "he" is predicand for the PC.
 

tzfujimino

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[...] and the semantic (understood) subject "he" is predicand for the PC.

It must have been a typo - I couldn't find "predicand" here.
May I ask what you meant?
 

HeartShape

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"He is said to be rich."

Not quite. "Say" is a catenative verb and this is catenative construction, where "to be rich" is a subordinate infinitival clause functioning as catenative complement of "said".

Like most non-finite clauses, "to be rich" is subjectless, though the subject is understood as "he". The adjective "rich" is subjective predicative complement of "be", and the semantic (understood) subject "he" is predicand for the PC.


He is said to be rich

i. He is said [(He) to be rich]
ii. He is said [(He) to be rich] = subject complement of "He"
iii. He is said [(He) to be rich] = predicand = terminology of saying subject complement am I right? Or should it be to be rich is the predicand of He?

He is rich = predicand/predicative complement (Subordinate clause is a subject complement of "He").
rich = adjective predicate
He is said [(He) to be rich] = infinitival phrase which includes the word predicate word rich.

The sentence contains the elements of infinitival phrase as analysed above.

Basically, my original analysis is correct, but if I describe the subordinate part as above then that completes my understanding?

Is this the correct understanding?
 
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HeartShape

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Hi,

I have found my answer. I have also attached screen of another analysis from someone.

My post was actually right.

He is said to be rich = Subject Verb Objective

1. rich = predicate objective of
"to be"
2.
to be = the infinitive is the object of the verb "is said".
3. to be rich = predicate complement
[Of he. I think.] (fancy way of saying it)

And that concludes my analysis.

Anyone disagree?

There's also another way to analyse the sentence:

He is said to be rich = S + P + SA where P is considered complex verbs, and SA is subject attribute. Obviously, S is subject.
 

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PaulMatthews

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Hi,

I have found my answer. I have also attached screen of another analysis from someone.

My post was actually right.

He is said to be rich = Subject Verb Objective

1. rich = predicate objective of
"to be"
2.
to be = the infinitive is the object of the verb "is said".
3. to be rich = predicate complement
[Of he. I think.] (fancy way of saying it)

And that concludes my analysis.

Anyone disagree?

There's also another way to analyse the sentence:

He is said to be rich = S + P + SA where P is considered complex verbs, and SA is subject attribute. Obviously, S is subject.

I disagree. Predicative complements (both subjective and objective) very rarely consist of clauses. They are virtually always NPs or AdjPs.

As I said before, it's a catenative construction -- see my post #4 for details
 

TheParser

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1. He is said to be rich


NOT A TEACHER

Hello, Heartshape:

I have found some information that may interest you.

"This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town."

a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.
b. He believes that the infinitive phrase describes the subject "this."

Source: An online article by Eugene R. Moutoux entitled "Infinitives German - Latin - English"
 

PaulMatthews

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Hello, Heartshape:

I have found some information that may interest you. "This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town."

a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.
b. He believes that the infinitive phrase describes the subject "this."

Source: An online article by Eugene R. Moutoux entitled "Infinitives German - Latin - English"

Clauses don't generally function as predicatives, except in the reversible specifying construction. In your example, it's the NP "the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" that is subjective PC (predicative complement) of "be". And in the OP's example it's the AdjP "rich" that is subjective PC of "be".

In examples like these the matrix clause is obligatorily passive, so we have "He is said to be rich" (not *"They say him to be rich").

"Say" is a catenative verb and the subordinate infinitival clause is catenative complement of "said".
 

jutfrank

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a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.

Your source believes that this infinitive phrase is an adjective?! :shock:
 

TheParser

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Your source believes that this infinitive phrase is an adjective?! :shock:


When you get time, would you read his article and let us know your opinion?

I think that I have quoted him correctly.

Thank you.
 

HeartShape

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I disagree. Predicative complements (both subjective and objective) very rarely consist of clauses. They are virtually always NPs or AdjPs.

As I said before, it's a catenative construction -- see my post #4 for details

So, does the main clause of the sentence have a transitive verb or an intransitive linking verb?
 
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jutfrank

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- He seemed to have all his ducks in a row.
- One contestant appears to lack self-confidence.
- The Royal Library of Alexandria is thought to have contained more than 500,000 books.
- This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town.

When you get time, would you read his article and let us know your opinion?

Thank you, The Parser.

I didn't read the whole article, only the part quoted above. I can easily see how the infinitive phrases above may be understood as adjectives when used as complements of seem and appear, but not at all when following that kind of passive verb. I can't imagine what concept of 'adjective' Moutoux is using here.

I don't wish to disagree with anybody, only to learn.

[Not a trained grammarian]
 

PaulMatthews

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So, does the main clause of the sentence have a transitive verb or an intransitive linking verb?

It’s intransitive.

In your example, the clause "said to be rich" is passive, thus "said" is intransitive so it cannot take a direct object, of course, though it can take a by phrase: "He is said by his family to be rich".

Note that if "to be rich" were the direct object of "said”, we would expect it to be freely replaceable with an NP, but that isn’t possible: we can’t say *“He is said rich”.

Identifying certain non-finite clauses as catenative is preferable to calling them direct objects which have a quite different structure and distribution.

Below is a slightly simplified tree diagram showing the category and function of each constituent. As you can see, there are two layers of subordination: The past participial clause "said to be rich" is complement of "is", and embedded within it is the infinitival clause "to be rich" serving as complement of "said".

Click on image to enlarge it.


He is said to be rich.jpg
 

HeartShape

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It’s intransitive.

In your example, the clause "said to be rich" is passive, thus "said" is intransitive so it cannot take a direct object, of course, though it can take a by phrase: "He is said by his family to be rich".

Note that if "to be rich" were the direct object of "said”, we would expect it to be freely replaceable with an NP, but that isn’t possible: we can’t say *“He is said rich”.

Identifying certain non-finite clauses as catenative is preferable to calling them direct objects which have a quite different structure and distribution.

Below is a slightly simplified tree diagram showing the category and function of each constituent. As you can see, there are two layers of subordination: The past participial clause "said to be rich" is complement of "is", and embedded within it is the infinitival clause "to be rich" serving as complement of "said".

Click on image to enlarge it.


View attachment 3016

Thanks for the diagram. That was really helpful. At the moment I need to digest all this information and re-evaluate something. I think there is some mistakes somewhere, so just need to peice something together. By the way, so are you saying the main verb is a linking verb, right? And just so I understand, can a linking verb have an active sentence, in terms of since there is a passive there is always an active?
 
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HeartShape

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Hello, Heartshape:

I have found some information that may interest you.

"This is said to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town."

a. My source believes that the infinitive phrase "to be the best Vietnamese restaurant in town" is a predicate adjective.
b. He believes that the infinitive phrase describes the subject "this."

Source: An online article by Eugene R. Moutoux entitled "Infinitives German - Latin - English"

This is actually a good example. I might come back to this post later.
 
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