Page 1 of 2 1 2 Last
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. Junior Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Japan

    • Join Date: Jun 2017
    • Posts: 42
    #1

    Implication in English

    I am an Australian. I am teaching two adults in Japan who are a couple- they have separate lessons. One is an ENT doctor (main focus of her learning) and the other is a Kendo expert who often goes overseas and would like to have a chat with students or instructors or hotels or restaurants. I was reading this restaurant dialogue from Islcollective with the Kendo Expert and I realised there is so much implication marked in italics (note this is a little annoying because it doesn't make breaks in communication clear such after the first two lines). Are there good resources for helping students understand common uses of implication- I don't a particular person's implication?


    A: Waiter! I’d like the menu, please. (implies I would like you to give me the menu)
    W: Here you are, sir.
    W: Are you ready to order?
    A: Yes, I am. Can I start with tomato soup? Then the salmon and steak, please.
    W: What steak would you like: rare, medium or
    well - done?
    A: Medium, please.
    W: And would you like vegetables or salad?
    A: Vegetables, please. (implies yes)
    W: Would you like any wine?
    A: Yes, white, please……..
    A: Waiter! Can I have the bill, please? (implies can give me the bill)
    W: Here you are.
    A: Is service included?
    W: Yes, it is.
    A: Can I pay by credit card?
    W: Yes, of course.

  2. emsr2d2's Avatar
    Moderator
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2009
    • Posts: 50,410
    #2

    Re: Implication in English

    Quote Originally Posted by cloa View Post
    I am an Australian. I am teaching two adults in Japan who are a couple - they have separate lessons. One is an ENT doctor (main focus of her learning) and the other is a Kendo expert who often goes overseas and would like to have a chat with students, or instructors, or and hotels hotel or restaurants restaurant staff. I was reading this restaurant dialogue from Islcollective with the Kendo Expert and I realised there is so much implication marked in italics (note this is a little annoying because it doesn't make breaks in communication clear such after the first two lines). Are there good resources for helping students understand common uses of implication- I don't mean a particular person's implication?


    A: Waiter! I’d like the menu, please. (Implies "I would like you to give me the menu.")
    W: Here you are, sir.
    W: Are you ready to order?
    A: Yes, I am. Can I start with tomato soup? Then the salmon and steak, please.
    W: What steak would you like: rare, medium or well-done?
    A: Medium, please.
    W: And would you like vegetables or salad?
    A: Vegetables, please. (Implies "Yes.")
    W: Would you like any wine?
    A: Yes, white, please.
    A: Waiter! Can I have the bill, please? (Implies "Can you give me the bill?")
    W: Here you are.
    A: Is service included?
    W: Yes, it is.
    A: Can I pay by credit card?
    W: Yes, of course.
    I'm not sure whether "implication" is your choice of word or that of the textbook. Whichever it is, I'm not keen on it. I don't think any of those are implications - they're simply meanings.

    "I'd like the menu" is simply another, and more natural, way of saying "I'd like you to give/bring me the menu".
    I disagree that "Vegetables, please" (after being given two options) means or implies "Yes". The only possible answers to "And would you like vegetables or salad?" are "Both", "Neither", "Vegetables" and "Salad". If the person said "Yes" in response to the original question, it wouldn't be clear what they wanted.
    "Can I have the bill?" is simply the standard way of asking for the bill. I've never heard anyone say "Can you give/bring me the bill?"

    For me, an implication is different. If the waiter said "And would you like vegetables or salad? The salad's really good!", that would imply that he felt the salad would be the better choice.

    On a separate note, it's rather odd for someone to order both the salmon and the steak for their main course. It's not impossible, of course, but it's unusual to order a starter and then two main courses.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

  3. Junior Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2018
    • Posts: 46
    #3

    Re: Implication in English

    Cloa,

    There are no such resources. You just have to tell him the inferences. "Can I have the bill?" = "Please give me the bill", etc. If you want, you can have him practice the dialogues several times, each time with a different way of saying the same thing.

    By the way, these various differences and inferences also exist in Japanese. (I speak Japanese.) One way to handle this is to compare the various differences in English with the same various differences in Japanese.
    Last edited by NinjaTurtle; 18-Feb-2019 at 00:16.

  4. Tarheel's Avatar
    VIP Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Jun 2014
    • Posts: 15,664
    #4

    Re: Implication in English

    Ninja Turtle, you should have read Ems's post before posting something yourself.

    You might want to work on learning the difference between imply and infer.

    Are you really an English teacher?


  5. Junior Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Japan

    • Join Date: Jun 2017
    • Posts: 42
    #5

    Re: Implication in English

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    I'm not sure whether "implication" is your choice of word or that of the textbook. Whichever it is, I'm not keen on it. I don't think any of those are implications - they're simply meanings.

    "I'd like the menu" is simply another, and more natural, way of saying "I'd like you to give/bring me the menu".
    I disagree that "Vegetables, please" (after being given two options) means or implies "Yes". The only possible answers to "And would you like vegetables or salad?" are "Both", "Neither", "Vegetables" and "Salad". If the person said "Yes" in response to the original question, it wouldn't be clear what they wanted.
    "Can I have the bill?" is simply the standard way of asking for the bill. I've never heard anyone say "Can you give/bring me the bill?"

    For me, an implication is different. If the waiter said "And would you like vegetables or salad? The salad's really good!", that would imply that he felt the salad would be the better choice.

    On a separate note, it's rather odd for someone to order both the salmon and the steak for their main course. It's not impossible, of course, but it's unusual to order a starter and then two main courses.
    someone to order both the salmon and the steak for their main course- never said that they are dining alone.
    Ordering a full course set could easily have two mains- I have done it.

    Thanks for your corrections- wrote it too quick.


    "And would you like vegetables or salad?" implied part is not the whole answer only a part so the proper explicit possible answers are Yes, both. Yes, vegetables. Yes, salad. No, I don't want neither. No, I don't want neither. Can I have something else?

  6. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 8,243
    #6

    Re: Implication in English

    Quote Originally Posted by cloa View Post
    "And would you like vegetables or salad?" implied part is not the whole answer only a part so the proper explicit possible answers are Yes, both. Yes, vegetables. Yes, salad. No, I don't want neither. No, I don't want neither. Can I have something else?
    Look again carefully at what you have written here. If one of your students had written this, would you want to correct anything?

  7. Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    Key Member
    Other
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 4,832
    #7

    Re: Implication in English

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Look again carefully at what you have written here. If one of your students had written this, would you want to correct anything?
    I wonder if it's an Australianism. We have quirks like that here in Maine. People say things like:

    - I don't care if you come over (meaning I don't mind if you come over, meaning, I wish you would come over).
    - So don't I (meaning I don't, either).
    - Come over after six (meaning Come over at six).
    Last edited by Charlie Bernstein; 19-Feb-2019 at 21:50.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

  8. Junior Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2018
    • Posts: 46
    #8

    Re: Implication in English

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    - Come over after six (meaning Come over at six).
    To me, both phrases mean the same thing. Fascinating!

  9. Junior Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Japan

    • Join Date: Jun 2017
    • Posts: 42
    #9

    Re: Implication in English

    "And would you like vegetables or salad?" the implied part is not the whole answer. It is only a part of the answer so the proper explicit possible answers are Yes, both. Yes, vegetables. Yes, salad. No, I don't want neither. No, I don't want neither. Can I have something else?

    Short hand is implication- you are implying some words that are not included. There is enough garbage semantics in linguistics to last a lifetime so let's not include that. I did a TEFL with so much jargon- most of which I will never use.

    None of my students are at a level whereby they write anything like that. My answer was implication in practice.

  10. Tarheel's Avatar
    VIP Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Jun 2014
    • Posts: 15,664
    #10

    Re: Implication in English

    Would you like vegetables or salad?
    A. vegetables
    B. salad
    C. both
    D. neither

    Would Australians say "I don't want neither"?


Page 1 of 2 1 2 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •