Why have there been so few orthography reforms in English?

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Glizdka

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My guess is that the English are just very conservative (look at the Royal Family). In American English, there have been a few reforms, but not too many either.
I wonder why, has any of you dug deep enough into the topic?

Thought, through, though, thorough are great examples of historical spelling, but there are many much more confusing examples:

"I live where my father lives. There's a big tree with many leaves in the garden. I love the tree, so whenever a leaf falls from it, it ruins my life, in fact, it ruins both of our lives. I would leave this place because of that, but my father never leaves this place. This is too much, I'm gonna turn on the TV, my show is going live."

Some things like read [reed] and read [red] are even worse. This is the same verb, different tenses, same spelling, different pronunciations. Why not change the spelling to "red"? Because it could be mistaken for the color red? They are different parts of speech, the context would make it much less confusing than having the present and past form of the same verb look the same.

Why hasn't English ever adopted diacritic symbols (likę śómę óf thóśę)?
And of course, let's not forget this poem.

At least it's not Tibetan I guess...
 

GoesStation

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English has no regulatory authority to impose spelling changes. Some spelling simplifications like plow instead of plough have taken root anyway, but it's a very slow process.
 

Glizdka

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It sounds reasonable, Piscean. I guess the fact that the English Empire used to span over a significant portion of the world, only adds to that. I think of written Chinese, many different pronunciation for the same word, one script for all of them, people from different parts of the Empire could write to each other intelligibly, even though they couldn't talk to each other with the same amount of intelligibility.

But then, we have a notoriously difficult to learn script, do you personally think it's worth it?
 

Glizdka

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Chinese and English are rather different. Speakers of, for example Shanghainese and Mandarin, don't pronounce words in different ways; they have different words in the spoken language.

I know, in English it's just a few patterns that change. I absolutely love this example. And I do agree with you, it would be difficult to decide as to which pronunciation the new spelling rules should be based on.
 

Tdol

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And -gh is a form of orthography reform caused by the Norman conquest as they changed the letter yogh -ȝ- to gh.
 

probus

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My guess is that the English are just very conservative (look at the Royal Family). In American English, there have been a few reforms, but not too many either.
I wonder why, has any of you dug deep enough into the topic?

A little while back I wrote in this Forum a brief history of the largely failed American attempt to reform orthography. About all that remains of that effort is traveler versus traveller, color versus colour and so on.
Admittedly I did not do the work necessary to supply historical and scholarly references so my views got pretty short shrift. So be it. I am as lazy now as then.

So much for the American side. As for the English, inventors of this wonderful language, my view is that they are as they've always been, pretty much ungovernable. English will always be irregular because controlling the English is like herding cats.
 
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probus

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Some spelling simplifications like plow instead of plough have taken root anyway

Good grief. Have they really? Plow? Surely you jest.
I must make a better effort to stay awake. But in any case I will go to my grave believing it's plough
 

Tdol

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A little while back I wrote in this Forum a brief history of the largely failed American attempt to reform orthography. About all that remains of that effort is traveler versus traveller, color versus colour and so on.

It succeeded in American English, and was largely the effort of one person. It didn't get other variants on board, which made the rationalisation a contributor to the mess that we already had. Our spelling is a problem, though the Roman alphabet is an efficient system of writing, but one that we're one of the worst examples of. Reforms have only added further layers of mess. It some ways, it is sad that such an efficient system is abused by the most widely spoken language that uses it.

And plow has no roots in BrE. We still plough the fields and scatter.
 

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Good grief. Have they really? Plow? Surely you jest.
I must make a better effort to stay awake. But in any case I will go to my grave believing it's plough
I should have added in American English. I wouldn't be surprised if plough​ is still preferred up north in Canada. :)
 

Tdol

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They still speak proper English there? :-D
 

Glizdka

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It succeeded in American English(...)

How hard is it to master another accent for a native speaker? You have a different problem to overcome than the one non-native speakers have. How hard is it to get rid of something that's already automatic for you?

Also, why is "gh" so popular in so many different spelling ideas for how to represent a specific type of pronunciation?
For exaplne: "light" and "lite", where "magic e" is used in the same way "gh" is used
 
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probus

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How hard is it to master another accent for a native speaker? You have a different problem to overcome than the one non-native speakers have. How hard is it to get rid of something that's already automatic for you?

The ability to.duplicate accents varies enormously. I recently met a man from Gambia who can easily convince people from Jamaica that he is one of them. My own efforts to mimic a Jamaican accent beget laughter rather than belief. Some people just have a much better ear than others.
 

abaka

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Also, why is "gh" so popular in so many different spelling ideas for how to represent a specific type of pronunciation?
For exaplne: "light" and "lite", where "magic e" is used in the same way "gh" is used.

It indicated a hard [χ] sound originally, one apparently still heard in some corners of Scotland.

Let me say a few blunt words.

Questioning the irregularity of a language's spelling entirely misses the point.

Spelling diverges from pronunciation in time because written communication exists and develops not only to mimic speech visually, but as a partly separate language.

Studies show quite conclusively that fluent reading recognizes words, or groups of letters at the least, together as a unit. You only attempt to sound out words you are not quite familiar with.

In practice, the lack of strict phonetic correspondence is a hindrance only to learners, foreign and native alike, who must, I am convinced, take their difficulties as an urgent command to study harder.
 

Tdol

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How hard is it to get rid of something that's already automatic for you?

I tried to adopt American spelling for a while, but found it very difficult. However, I have seen the Webmaster of this site write color because he uses the spelling so much in his code.
 

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How hard is it to master another accent for a native speaker? You have a different problem to overcome than the one non-native speakers have. How hard is it to get rid of something that's already automatic for you?

It varies by person, but some people can do it convincingly enough to fool even native speakers.

When British actor Hugh Laurie auditioned for the role of Dr. Gregory House, the director who watched his audition tape had no idea Laurie wasn't American. When casting the show, the director was adamant that the role be played by an American actor, because he didn't believe that British actors could do convincing American accents. Not realizing Laurie was actually British, he described Laurie's accent as "quintessentially American".

Here's a neat clip which shows Laurie being interviewed about the process. You can hear his American accent for the show, as well as his native British accent. Even years after the show became hugely (or should I say Hughly?) popular, many Americans didn't realize Laurie was British. Only after several years of TV interviews and such did it become common knowledge to US audiences.

Of course, he'd been well known to English audiences long before he became internationally famous with House, M.D. The person doing the interview is his longtime collaborative partner Stephen Fry, with whom he did many comedy sketches.

What's interesting is that even when you watch blooper clips of House, Laurie doesn't drop the accent even when he breaks character.
 
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probus

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What's interesting is that even when you watch blooper clips of House, Laurie doesn't drop the accent even when he breaks character.

I guess that is part of the actor's craft. I've read that Sacha Baron Cohen refused to break character for days on end when he was doing Ali G. Given Ali G's personality that must have been very hard on everyone around him.
 
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