What needs to be proved

[Glizdka]

I found this inconsistency in a YouTube video about the Hilbert curve.

The narrator is saying:
"Now, I'm not going to go to the proof for why this gives a space-filling curve, but let's at least see what needs to be proved."

But "Three things need to be proven." is displayed on the screen at the very moment he's saying it.

I always thought proved/proven, as a past participle, was an accent thing, as in proved is preferred in BrE, and proven in AmE, but here, both come from the same person.

Is it that proved and proven can be used by a speaker depending on whichever they feel like using at the moment, or am I missing something?

 

[teechar]

I always thought proved/proven, as a past participle, was an accent thing,

You need "regional" or "dialect" instead of "accent". Do you know the difference?

Back to your question: perhaps the person who inserted the visual text is not the same as the narrator.

 

[Glizdka]

You need "regional" or "dialect" instead of "accent". Do you know the difference?

Back to your question: perhaps the person who inserted the visual text is not the same as the narrator.

Apparently, I don't. What is it?

 

[jutfrank]

This sounds like me. I teach my students to use proven as the third form (for a few reasons). However, I do sometimes catch myself using proved.

 

[Glizdka]

This sounds like me. I teach my students to use proven as the third form (for a few reasons). However, I do sometimes catch myself using proved.

Would you advise against mixing it up?

 

[SoothingDave]

I bet the script said "proven," and he thought to himself "I'm not saying that."

 

[GoesStation]

Like the narrator, this American would say proved. I reserve proven for the adjective.

 

[jutfrank]

Would you advise against mixing it up?

It's generally a good idea to be consistent, yes. Especially for a teacher.

Like the narrator, this American would say proved. I reserve proven for the adjective.

The fact that proven is the adjective is one of those reasons I use to justify teaching it as the past participle form. Also, there are expressions such as innocent until proven guilty where proved sounds wrong.

 

[Rover_KE]

Like the narrator, this American would say proved. I reserve proven for the adjective.

I'm pleased about that – I do, too.

a proven fact

 

[abaka]

I took a mathematics degree (a B.A., to be precise). We used proved, without exception. The theorem having been proved as required, we put down Q.E.D., or a black square. In philosophy and logic, likewise. By the way, a theorem is by definition "proven" -- the adjective is superfluous.

Proven and unproven are legal or quasi-legal adjectives, as has already been noted.

 

[Glizdka]

How do I know if it's a past participle adjective, or a past participle verb?

"It is proved/proven. You can't argue with facts!"

 

[abaka]

If it's not clear from context, it's not important enough to worry about.

 

[Glizdka]

If it's not clear from context, it's not important enough to worry about.

Worrying about unimportant things is my hobby, sir.

 

[abaka]

You will come across people saying proved for proven and vice versa. If you wish to spend time worrying about what they should have said, please enjoy.

If you are ever not sure which one to say, I'd suggest saying proved.

 

[GoesStation]

How do I know if it's a past participle adjective, or a past participle verb?

"It is proved/proven. You can't argue with facts!"

That looks like an adjective to me, so I'd use proven. However, in It has been proved, it can only be a past participle.

 

[SoothingDave]

I use "proven" all around. It just sounds wrong to me to say "proved." I wouldn't say "gived."

 

[teechar]

Apparently, I don't. What is it?

Take a look at the following:
https://www.lexico.com/en/explore/what-is-the-difference-between-dialect-and-accent

 

[Glizdka]

Take a look at the following:
https://www.lexico.com/en/explore/what-is-the-difference-between-dialect-and-accent

Everything's clear now. Thanks a lot!

 

[SoothingDave]

There's a difference. 'Proved' is a recognised form of the verb, used by many people. 'Gived' is not.

I realize it's accepted, and people say it. But I don't like the sound of it. Same as when people say someone "pleaded" guilty. I use "pled."

 

[GoesStation]

I realize it's accepted, and people say it. But I don't like the sound of it. Same as when people say someone "pleaded" guilty. I use "pled."

That's interesting. "Pleaded" is the old, accepted form. "Pled" is a newcomer that has barely shown up in Google's ngram corpus. I have a strong feeling you'll see the curves reverse rapidly in the next few years.