Page 2 of 3 First 1 2 3 Last
Results 11 to 20 of 30
  1. Senior Member
    Other
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 1,379
    #11

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Fine. How about "the children came running"?
    Retired proofreader. ESL tutor. Not a teacher. Nor a typist, evidently.

  2. VIP Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 15,469
    #12

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    Fine. How about "the children came running"?
    The -ing form is functioning adverbially, modifying the verb 'came'.

  3. Senior Member
    Other
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 1,379
    #13

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Well, the children both came and were running, so I suppose that might work if you accept that participles can be adverbs (I'm not sure I do). But in

    You were seen entering the theatre,

    the one entering was "you", not necessarily the observer. It seems a stretch to call "entering" anything other than a predicate adjective.
    Retired proofreader. ESL tutor. Not a teacher. Nor a typist, evidently.

  4. VIP Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 15,469
    #14

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    I was possibly (probably?) wrong in my analysis of 'They came running'. However, I can't see the -ing forms in either that sentence or You were seen entering the theatre as predicative adjectives. I'll have to think more about this before I say any more.

  5. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 9,564
    #15

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    Is there such a thing as an 'adverbial adjective'?
    An adjective in form and adverbial by modification of a verb. As in, for example:

    stick fast - simply a verb modified by an adverb meaning 'firmly, securely'.
    I'm sure we've talked about this before over the years. I thought you always maintained that fast when used like this was an adjective formally-speaking. (Sorry if I've got that wrong.) That's what I mean by 'adverbial adjective'.

    While there is no clear agreement on which combinations may be phrasal verbs, there is general agreement that they consist of a verb + one or more 'little words'. The little words may be labelled adverb, particle, preposition or something else. I don't think your four examples fit into the phrasal verb category especially stick fast and ring true.
    Probably not for most people, no. I guess my category is a little wider. Notice my hedging when I said "a kind of phrasal verb". Well, you could interpret that to mean 'the kind that have adjectives as particles and that nobody apart from jutfrank acknowledges as phrasal verbs'. Anyway, they were the first examples that came to mind. I didn't put much thought into selecting those particular examples.

    ring true - 'true' seems to me to be an adjective complement Originally a bell-maker would strike a bell to see if the sound was 'true' - the exact sound that was required. We have extended the meaning, but the construction in Those words ring true is no more phrasal than That man sounds honest.
    Right. You mean you're analysing ring as copular where I was seeing it as a lexical verb. On further reflection, I do think your way is better. I withdraw that one.

    talk dirty - slightly more problematic for me at the moment (my nightcap had too little tonic), but the action of talking is involved. as are dirty (obscene or erotically charged) words.
    I don't quite see what you're saying here.

    come clean - also problematic for me. All I can say at the moment is that I think I can see a movement in 'coming' from a state of hiding something to a state of being clean/honest.
    Again, I'm not certain I follow. Do you mean that if there's a sense of movement, it suggests that clean is adverbial?

    I do see all four as being qualitatively different from BE sick in that BE sick (vomit) does not involve being anything; it involves doing something. People who are sick (vomit) are often sick (ill), but it is possible to vomit without being ill.
    Yes, be sick does seem to be a special, perhaps unique case. I think it seems so odd because of the usually 'very' stative verb be being used to denote a 'very' dynamic action.

  6. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 9,564
    #16

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    If I had to parse the original sentence, I should play it safe: subject he, copula was, predicate adjective sick, adverbial phrase of circumstance all over the cat.

    I would argue that the vomiting action is implied and understood: sick in what way? -- to the stomach, by vomiting. There may be no illness, and yet the momentary sickness is evident.

    It's surely a euphemism.
    This all seems eminently sensible from a grammarian's point of view. You're absolutely right that there's no need to label anything as a (non-copula/dynamic) verb just because there is denotation of action.

  7. Senior Member
    Other
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 1,379
    #17

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    As I said above, I thought your labelling it a species of phrasal verb was ingenious.

    Indeed phrasal verbs are the grammarian's morphosyntactic approach to the predicates of formal logic: they unify strings of words so that each sentence approaches SVO form, which could be denoted as a predicate with two free variables V(s,o) symbolically. Piscean's original sentence is Sick(he,cat) in this notation.

    But I can't quite picture the learner being asked to parse it that way.
    Retired proofreader. ESL tutor. Not a teacher. Nor a typist, evidently.

  8. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 9,564
    #18

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    Indeed phrasal verbs are the grammarian's morphosyntactic approach to the predicates of formal logic: they unify strings of words so that each sentence approaches SVO form, which could be denoted as a predicate with two free variables V(s,o) symbolically. Piscean's original sentence is Sick(he,cat) in this notation.
    Yes, this is indeed similar to how I first approached it, but with the predicator comprising both be and sick: he BE SICK cat


  9. Senior Member
    Other
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 1,379
    #19

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Yes, this is indeed similar to how I first approached it, but with the predicator comprising both be and sick: he BE SICK cat

    Yes, I also meant it that way. The better notation would be Be_Sick(he, cat), or even Be_Sick_Over(he,cat).
    Retired proofreader. ESL tutor. Not a teacher. Nor a typist, evidently.

  10. VIP Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 15,469
    #20

    Re: Is sick an adjective in 'Be sick' (= vomit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I thought you always maintained that fast when used like this was an adjective formally-speaking. (Sorry if I've got that wrong.)
    Not I.

Page 2 of 3 First 1 2 3 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •