I'm totally confused

[Ice-Kagen]

Hello!
I'm studying translation and interpretation in English and Russian at university in Belgium. Even though most English teachers in my country have a strong preference for British accent, I like American English more. At the beginning of my studies at university, they told me I was allowed to pick my favorite accent, as long as I pronounced correctly and didn't mix things up. Back then, my pronunciation was pretty bad and I wasn't really aware of the differences between British and American English. So, in order to speak English better, I started to study phonetics on my own. And I've been studying it intensively for more than one year now. I also try to practice English as much as possible and to listen to a lot of spoken English. I'm still really far from sounding like a native speaker, but I hope that someday my accent will be close to perfect. This year, my English teacher comes from the United States. She speaks with a General American accent and her pronunciation is really similar to what is indicated in the dictionary. However, even though she says she allows us to speak with an American accent, I feel like there are certain features of General American that she won't let us use even if they are indicated in the dictionary and used by many native speakers, including herself.

For example, she allows us to pronounce the letter r all the time and to pronounce words like "can't" or "pass" the American way, but she won't allow us to use flap Ts. She also says that even if many Americans pronounce it that way, it's incorrect to pronounce "not" as /nɑːt/ rather than /nɒt/. Yet, it's written in the dictionary and of course, she also pronounces it that way.

She also insists that there's a yod in words like "new" or "pneumonia". She absolutely wants us to pronounce /nju:/ and /njuːˈmoʊ.njə/ rather than /nu:/ and / /nuːˈmoʊ.njə/(and of course, she doesn't), even if all dictionaries say those words are not pronounced that way in American English.

And to be honest, all of that makes me very confused. I don't get why she acts like that... She says she doesn't want us to mix up accents, but the accent she wants us to adopt is clearly a mixture between British and American English. I'm also quite frustrated, because I'd really like to improve my oral skills in American English during class, but I can't due to her nonsensical restrictions. Furthermore, she is extremely severe and I wouldn't dare contradict her. But, every time I have a lesson with her, I feel really stressed and I try to avoid to speak as much as possible, because I'm afraid of being judged for pronouncing in a way she deems incorrect, while she uses it herself. I really don't get why she wants us to pronounce in that specific way. Could someone explain it to me? And anyway, what should I do?

 

[jutfrank]

We obviously can't explain to you her reasons for what she allows or advises you to do. It doesn't make much sense to me, but it's possible that she does have good reasons.

Ask her to justify herself. You don't have to contradict her.

 

[probus]

I'm a native speaker of AmE, and neither I nor anyone I know pronounces pneumonia as nyewmonia. We say noomonia. And I think you have said that your teacher does too.

Sometimes we are unaware of our own pronunciation. Perhaps that is the case with your teacher. Or maybe she genuinely believes that nyewmonia is correct and that she is being lazy or slovenly when she pronounces it noomonia.

 

[GoesStation]

I've heard a few American radio announcers use the yod you describe, but it's rare to non-existent in casual speech. Nearly all Americans use the flap /t/; if not, they probably use a glottal stop.

 

[Tdol]

I'm a native speaker of AmE, and neither I nor anyone I know pronounces pneumonia as nyewmonia.

We do in BrE, which adds to the confusion.

 

[Ice-Kagen]

First of all, thank you for your replies!

Ask her to justify herself. You don't have to contradict her.​

Yes, but the problem is that if I tell her what she considers to be wrong, is a valid pronunciation in the dictionary, it will be a way of contradicting her, and knowing her, I'm not sure she would be really happy. But I think I'm still going to ask for an explanation, because I need things to be clarified.

Sometimes we are unaware of our own pronunciation. Perhaps that is the case with your teacher. Or maybe she genuinely believes that nyewmonia is correct and that she is being lazy or slovenly when she pronounces it noomonia.​

Actually, I think you're right. I'm under the same impression. I feel like she is unaware of her pronunciation and finds her own accent "lazy", for some reason.

We do in BrE, which adds to the confusion.​

That's precisely why I think she encourages us to mix up accents, even though she says we must not do it.

 

[jutfrank]

Yes, but the problem is that if I tell her what she considers to be wrong, is a valid pronunciation in the dictionary, it will be a way of contradicting her, and knowing her, I'm not sure she would be really happy. But I think I'm still going to ask for an explanation, because I need things to be clarified.

She's a teacher, Ice-Kagen. Her job is to give you an explanation. There's no reason to be afraid.

 

[SoothingDave]

I'm curious where she's from in the US. She may be mistaking her own dialect for what is "standard" in the US.

 

[Ice-Kagen]

I'm curious where she's from in the US. She may be mistaking her own dialect for what is "standard" in the US.​

She's from Colorado. I don't really know anything about the accent of Colorado, but I don't think she's mistaking her dialect for what is standard in the US. I think she speaks General American, or at least something very close to it. Her way of pronouncing is almost identical to what is indicated in the dictionary. But for some reason, she doesn't want us to pronounce like her. She always says new as /nu:/ rather than /nju:/ but won't let us pronounce that way. Same goes for using flap Ts or using an /a/ vowel in not, among others.

 

[probus]

Does she use the flap T herself between two vowel sounds? Words like matter and better will tell the tale. Almost all Americans use it. If she does, it's a case of "Do as I say, not as I do." It would seem then as if she wants you to learn a version of English that she has idealized for some reason. If you accept her advice you will wind up sounding stilted or foreign rather than like a native speaker of AmE. There's nothing wrong with that, but it may not be what you want.

 

[Tdol]

That's precisely why I think she encourages us to mix up accents, even though she says we must not do it.

Mixing accents will sound odd, getting used to hearing different accents is good.

 

[Ice-Kagen]

Does she use the flap T herself between two vowel sounds? Words like matter and better will tell the tale. Almost all Americans use it. If she does, it's a case of "Do as I say, not as I do." It would seem then as if she wants you to learn a version of English that she has idealized for some reason. If you accept her advice you will wind up sounding stilted or foreign rather than like a native speaker of AmE. There's nothing wrong with that, but it may not be what you want.​

She definitely does, except sometimes when she tries to force herself. Most teachers at my university don't want us to use flap Ts, because they say using them sounds more informal. Yet, I hear all Americans use them, even in formal situations. Do they really sound that informal?

 

[rompercabeza]

She definitely does, except sometimes when she tries to force herself. Most teachers at my university don't want us to use flap Ts, because they say using them sounds more informal. Yet, I hear all Americans use them, even in formal situations. Do they really sound that informal?

In my observation, yes, generally speaking, all Americans use the flap T /t̬/, even in formal situations, and no, generally speaking, this usage doesn't sound informal in AmE. But one can find intervening factors and examples as I note below based on Szynalski (n.d.). The answer then becomes, there are apparently cases of the use of the flap T that are informal and probably avoided in formal speech. The flap T after /l/ is "careless" and "not recommended" (Szynalski, n.d.).

It would be interesting if an aspect of this could be explained in some regard. I would say that one indicator that this usage doesn't sound informal in AmE is that, as far as I have seen, most or virtually all AmE speakers are generally unaware that the use of the flap T /t̬/ could even be interpreted as an informal usage. By contrast, a classic informal usage that is generally recognized as informal by most or virtually all AmE speakers is "gonna" -- When are you gonna go? Informal or formal sanctions can be imposed in schools for the use of "gonna," and parents may encourage children not to use “gonna.” In addition, one can see in the US in various informal contexts, such as comic books, the use and spelling of the word "gonna."

By contrast, there is no discussion that I have heard indicating to students that an informal usage, and there is no written usage in informal contexts of this usage, such as "You had bedder go now." While there are informal sanctions or reprimands in certain circumstances in the social system for users of, say, "gonna," no such sanctions exist for users of the flap T /t̬/.

This view can be modified to say there may be contested grounds regarding the use of the flap T /t̬/. The numbers thirty, forty, and eighty are examples of uncontested uses of the flap T /t̬/. But perhaps the use of the flap T /t̬/ has spilled over to other numbers, such as ninety, where the use of the flap T /t̬/ falls outside of the rules of the use of the flap T /t̬/. The rules seems to be as follows:

The t becomes a flap t when the t is not in a stressed syllable and 1) r + t+ vowel sound (the t is between an r and vowel sound); 2) vowel sound +t + vowel sound (the t is between two vowel sounds). There may be other rules, such as vowel sound +t + l, but I think this rule falls under 2) vowel sound +t + vowel sound because the l, such as in the case of little, is /ˈlɪt̬·əl/ where the letter l is really /əl/.

I don’t understand how ninety may or may not be in the flap T category, and so this may be an informal usage of the flap t, and there may be informal sanctions associated with its usage. I am mentioning all of this for the sake of discussion as it may be of interest. Szynalski (n.d.) presents an interesting discussion.

According to the Szynalski (n.d.), the flap T after /l/ is "careless" and "not recommended," and so now complicating factors can be observed regarding the question whether the flap T is used in formal situations and whether the flap T sounds very informal. There are cases where it appears informal and speakers in formal situations probably avoid it.

Reference
Szynalski, T.P. (n.d.). Flap T FAQ. Retrieved 12-5-2019 from http://www.antimoon.com/how/flap-t.htm

 

[Ice-Kagen]

Thank you for the link rompercabeza. I already saw that page when I was studying phonetics and it was very useful. I know the rules for when to use flap Ts, but I still need to practice, because in some words, it's a bit difficult to pronounce for me(especially when it comes after a t), so it's pretty frustrating not to be allowed to use that sound. I would never use it after an /l/, but my teacher doesn't even want us to use that sound in words like "better" for example. Once, we had to practice the tongue twister "Betty Botter" and she insisted that she didn't want to hear it with flap Ts. Or, there was also that time when I had to record myself and then transcribe everything. She wrote a /t/ on my transcription, just because I had used flap Ts.

 

[GoesStation]

I would never use it after an /l/, but my teacher doesn't even want us to use that sound in words like "better" for example. Once, we had to practice the tongue twister "Betty Botter" and she insisted that she didn't want to hear with flap Ts. Or, there was also that time when I had to record myself and then transcribe everything. She wrote a /t/ on my transcription, just because I had used flap Ts.

Your teacher is not teaching English as it's spoken by actual Americans, evidently including her. I'm sorry.

On the plus side, not using flapped Ts won't impede comprehension at all.

 

[Tarheel]

She definitely does, except sometimes when she tries to force herself. Most teachers at my university don't want us to use flap Ts, because they say using them sounds more informal. Yet, I hear all Americans use them, even in formal situations. Do they really sound that informal?

I don't think it's formal or informal. I think it just has to do with speech habits.

I guess all Americans includes me. Hm.