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  1. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    They do not join the group in the normal way. They are not elected to be a member in the normal way.
    So, how do they join the group/become a member? The answer is as follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    they are asked by that group to become a member
    I am not a teacher.

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    #12

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
    If a person is co-opted into a group, is that person necessarily a member of that group?

    The only possible answer, in my opinion, is yes.

    He was co-opted into the Labour Government in 1964.

    The only logical inference, in my opinion, is that he became a member of the Labour Government. (Would it be logical to think he didn't?)

    Once again a lesson on how important context is.

    The word co-opt is not an everyday word. Unless you have a good reason to use it you shouldn't concern yourself with it any further.

    (Please note that I arrived at my opinion only after getting a two-hour nap and reading everything that had previously been posted.

    (If you make your post too long by the time I get to the end I may have forgotten what was at the beginning. )

    Your response indicates the Cobuild definition is inaccurate.

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    #13

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    They do not join the group in the normal way. They are not elected to be a member in the normal way.
    So, how do they join the group/become a member? The answer is as follows:
    A far more accurate phrasing would be "become a member by invitation of the group."
    Last edited by raymondaliasapollyon; 01-Dec-2019 at 12:52.

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    #14

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    They do not join the group in the normal way. They are not elected to be a member in the normal way.
    So, how do they join the group/become a member? The answer is as follows:
    Now I see what you mean. But that would work only when it has been made explicit in the first place that the person in question became a member. The Cobuild definition does not do that.

  5. Matthew Wai's Avatar
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    #15

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    In the Collins definition, "rather than joining or being elected in the normal way" suggests that they actually join the group/become a member.

    Another definition: "(of an elected group) to make someone a member through the choice of the present members"quoted from https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/co-opt
    "Someone" is actually a member.
    I am not a teacher.

  6. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #16

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    E.g. He was co-opted into the Labour Government of 1964.


    This description does not tell us whether the person in question was a member of the Labour Government of 1964.
    Of course it does! How can you be in the government without being a member of it?

  7. Tarheel's Avatar
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    #17

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    Being asked to become a member is different from actually becoming a member.
    That is true, but you asked about co-opt, and Matthew answered your question.

    Thread closed
    Not a professional teacher

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    #18

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Of course it does! How can you be in the government without being a member of it?
    By "this description," I was referring to the Cobuild definition.

    Plugging the Cobuild definition into that example sentence would derive the following:

    He was asked to become a member of the Labour Government of 1964, rather than joining it in the normal way.

    If someone was asked to be a member of the government, would it follow that he became a member?

    The main action, i.e., becoming a member of the government, is not stated but presupposed. A stated version of the definition would be "to become a member of a group by its invitation
    , rather than joining it in the normal way."
    Last edited by raymondaliasapollyon; 01-Dec-2019 at 16:43.

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    #19

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
    That is true, but you asked about co-opt, and Matthew answered your question.

    Thread closed
    But "asked" is used in the Cobuild definition of "co-opt."

    I see Matthew's reply makes sense, but only when it has been established that a person is a member, as in the following exchange:

    A: How did John become a member? (The question presupposes that John is a member.)
    B: He was asked to become a member by the committee, rather than joining or being elected in the normal way.



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    #20

    Re: co-opt and inferences

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Wai View Post
    In the Collins definition, "rather than joining or being elected in the normal way" suggests that they actually join the group/become a member.

    Another definition: "(of an elected group) to make someone a member through the choice of the present members"—quoted from https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/co-opt
    "Someone" is actually a member.
    Cambridge's definition makes better sense to me.

    If we take the Collins definition apart, we could derive a few statements:

    a. The person is asked to become a member by the group.
    b. He or she does not join the group in the normal way.
    c. He or she is not elected to the group in the normal way, either.

    Are b and c true in scenarios where the person is not a member of the group?

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