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  1. emsr2d2's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Quote Originally Posted by tree123 View Post
    1/ In England, except for Cockney, do English people have other dialects?
    Quote Originally Posted by J&K Tutoring View Post
    1. Certainly! I'm American, but I always have to turn on the subtitles if I watch a movie or TV show where the characters are from Scotland.
    No offence, but it doesn't make sense to mention characters from Scotland when the question specifically asked about England (not Great Britain or the United Kingdom).
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

  2. J&K Tutoring
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    #12

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    No offence, but it doesn't make sense to mention characters from Scotland when the question specifically asked about England (not Great Britain or the United Kingdom).
    None taken. Thank you for pointing out my egregious error- I have edited my post accordingly.

  3. probus's Avatar
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    #13

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
    There are regional variations. For example, I once heard a Texas woman say "I got all (oil) on my ball (bowling).
    Yes. Coming back to SoothingDave's remarks about the standard American accent, you don't have to go more than a few miles south and west of Chicago before the accent begins to change dramatically as I learned on my first road trip to California. Barely out of Chicago, a gas station guy asked "Want me to check th' ole?" I was momentarily confused.

  4. J&K Tutoring
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    #14

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Well I rather 'promised' to post a response to your post #3, so here goes. Others have posted really good responses to some of your main points, so I'll skip over those.

    I am not completely able to tell where people are from in China simply by their accents.
    Sorry, I should have put it another way: You can tell by the way a person speaks Chinese that they are not from your home area, and that's what happened with the cab driver. He guessed wrongly about where you came from, but he was right in guessing your accent was not local.

    There is a rather confrontational undercurrent in your posts that seems to have an element of politics. I have lived more than 10 years in China and one thing I learned early on is to not discuss politics other than internal US politics with Chinese- the overwhelming majority are simply unequipped to do so. In the west we are at least aware that perhaps large numbers of people hold opposing ideas/opinions whether we understand them or not. We feel that debate is generally healthy to our democracy and our way of life. Chinese get always only one side of things and any opposition to government dogma is put down to 'a few troublemakers'.

    You cited Wikipedia, which is generally a good source of unbiased information. I think that other users of this site should know that where I get my internet (Guangxi province), Wikipedia is blocked, so I guess it is for you as well and you use a VPN in defiance of your government's wishes.

    I've searched the Internet before that many Western people claimed that they have been discriminated because of their accents.
    Marketing research has shown that human beings are far more inclined to complain than they are to say they are happy, and the internet has provided a convenient platform for all sorts of gripes- legitimate and otherwise. "Many people claim..." is the weakest of arguments. We have an idiot for a president who uses that all the time in his speeches. "Everybody is saying..." "People tell me..." "I hear that..." are all ways he tries to legitimize the things he makes up. Certainly, there is discrimination based on how people talk, but it's not only about their accent- it's more often really about what they say than how they say it. Heavy accents tend to go with/come from poor education, and it's often convenient to blame something beyond ones control rather than to take responsibility for improving one's lot in life.


    ... it is undeniable fact that there is still racism in the West as well as in the USA too.
    Yes, it is true but, as I stated, we are learning to do better, and I like to think that progress has been made, though we have been taking steps backward since 2016. There is great shame in our national past. But only by facing those facts and talking openly about them can we make real progress, even if that progress will always be too slow. The debate about what best to do about it continues, despite the efforts of our current 'leadership'.

    And I believe classes are still important in the UK, and some other European countries.
    It is the same everywhere. How many Chinese movies are about some poor boy/girl who works very hard to get an education and improve their situation in life?

    So [some?] British people, if not all, are interested in the royal family.
    Sticking my neck out a bit here, but I think most people in Britain think of the royal family somewhere on a scale from disgusted to amused to tolerated as a somewhat-useful tourist attraction to celebrity worship with the vast majority somewhere in the middle of that scale.
    Many British politicians actually are from the upper class.
    I think that many is the wrong word. There are hereditary positions in UK government, but they are in the less powerful branch of Parliament. If, by "upper class" you mean ambitious, well-educated people, then I say, 'Of course- aren't those the people we want in charge of government?'


    American movie named My Fair Lady produced in 1964 tells how accents were important in England. Why did the haughty professor fall in love with the humble florist? Because that's how movies work!
    Why did she finally become a fair lady?
    That question was only addressed very late in the story. Neither Eliza nor the professor really thought about that in the beginning. The professor thought of her as a purely academic challenge and she took a gamble on (at least temporarily) a better life that included central heating and chocolate.
    Would you say the change of her accent was not a factor, even if it would have been a minor factor?
    No, but that's a bit like saying Cinderella married a prince because of her shoe size. The message of the story was/is that love finds us when/where we are least looking for it and despite societal boundaries.
    Last edited by J&K Tutoring; 03-Jan-2020 at 03:07.

  5. Member
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    #15

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Hi J & K,

    Thank you for spending your time on responding to me and sharing me with your viewpoints. Of course, the forum code is it is not necessary to say "thank you", but just click "like", "thank". But I think it is worthy to type with my fingers sincerely saying "thank you" than just clicking this time.

    I have typed many words to respond to you but I finally decide not to post them out, because I've read the house rule that the forum doesn't allow to discuss politics. This is a forum mostly for the English language, and languages. I am here mostly learning English. And I'm just a nobody. Whatever I think does not matter at all. So I am not going to argue with you about many points I disagree with you in #14. I don't want to get banned. I like this language forum which is very helpful.

    I dislike the professor so much. He didn't treat the florist as a human being with a soul which is due , though she was very humble socially, but an object, betting. He is a narcissistic egotist on his high horse in my view.

    I'd like to call it a day. Have a good one.

    PS-Sorry, it is me who start these irrelevant issues. I will not go on.
    Last edited by tree123; 03-Jan-2020 at 13:01.
    Please correct my writing if there's any grammatical solecism.

  6. Tarheel's Avatar
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    #16

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Say:

    Thank you for responding to me and sharing your viewpoints with me.

    I don't know why you are so upset about a fictional character. (You can learn a little about British society at the time from MFL.)
    Not a professional teacher

  7. J&K Tutoring
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    #17

    Re: English accents and dialects

    tree123- I find your take on this movie very interesting as showing the way our perceptions are changing. Certainly we can't really call the professor a hero or even a very sympathetic character, but I do think you're a bit too harsh in your judgment.

    He didn't treat the florist as a human being with a soul which is due.
    You are exactly right- he didn't think of her much as a person, but he didn't really think of anyone as a person. That was just his nature. We shouldn't expect characters in this kind of show to have very much depth- they are all pretty one-dimensional. The whole focus of this kind of movie is to sketch some simple story to provide a framework for the musical numbers.

    she was very humble socially, but an object, betting.
    That's true, but I urge you to consider: First and foremost, he did not abuse her in any way. She was free to leave any time she wanted to. She chose to stay because she didn't have better options. If there is any social commentary in this movie, it is that women had very few options a hundred years ago. Basically:
    a. They were defined by their husbands and how they took care of the husband's children and family (ask a typical Chinese wife of today if that sounds familiar).
    b. They died a slow death working miserable jobs in the horrible factories of that day.
    c. They became teachers or prostitutes. A poor girl like Eliza would not have had the opportunity to go to school and become a teacher.

    He is a narcissistic egotist on his high horse in my view.
    I see him as trying to hold a mirror to (high) society and show that their standards of conduct and speaking were not due to breeding, and that it was unfair to think that the lower classes were genetically incapable of learning and improving so not worth investing in better public education. These things could be taught to anyone if that person were only given a chance.
    Last edited by J&K Tutoring; 04-Jan-2020 at 04:35.

  8. Tarheel's Avatar
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    #18

    Re: English accents and dialects

    I have to post this to say that's an amazing post (#17). It's an interesting and very thorough explanation of MFL. (I'm sure most us just think of it as an entertaining musical.)
    Not a professional teacher

  9. Tarheel's Avatar
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    #19

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Tree, it's okay to disagree. You should however, try not to be disagreeable. (All of us fail at that at times.)

    I like to economize on my words. That's partly because I don't like typing all that much. It's also because I don't like to waste words. (You never know when you're going to run out. )

    Tree, you use more words than you need to. You can use fewer words and say the same thing.
    Not a professional teacher

  10. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #20

    Re: English accents and dialects

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
    It's an interesting and very thorough explanation of MFL. (I'm sure most us just think of it as an entertaining musical.)
    Remember that MFL is an adaptation of George Bernard Shaw's classic play Pygmalion.

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