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  1. keannu's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    Further reading if you're interested:

    https://qz.com/914372/we-used-to-hav...lish-alphabet/
    In addition to missing letters that should match English pronunciations such as schwa /ə/, it's really difficult to recognize the starting and ending of a syllable.
    It's because, in English, vowels and consonants are positioned in consecutive orders.
    For example, in "obvious" and "internet", even though vowels function as the determinant of each syllable, due to serial positions of letters, it's hard to tell where a syllable start and ends.
    I'm really sorry to compare English words with their matching Korean words of pronunciations, but Korean characters have syllables that are the combination of consonants and vowels, so it's really easy to recognize and pronounce syllables one by one.

    "obvious" - ob/vi/ous - 아브비어스
    "internet - in/ter/net - 인터넷
    Last edited by keannu; 13-Jan-2020 at 13:25.

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    #12

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    The problem with creating a system whereby the spelling of a word exactly matches its pronunciation is that there is not one standard pronunciation. A Briton and a Texan each devising such a system will produce different results.

    The spelling of a word in English may tell us many things about its origins and derivations. Or it may be a historical artifact, frozen in time. It's not solely intended to guide pronunciation.

  3. keannu's Avatar
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    #13

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Quote Originally Posted by SoothingDave View Post
    The problem with creating a system whereby the spelling of a word exactly matches its pronunciation is that there is not one standard pronunciation. A Briton and a Texan each devising such a system will produce different results.

    The spelling of a word in English may tell us many things about its origins and derivations. Or it may be a historical artifact, frozen in time. It's not solely intended to guide pronunciation.
    It would be confusing if one letter varies its pronunciation in each word, and it will make learners have a hard time memorizing words and their pronunciations.
    In some character system of the world, spellings and pronunciations match each other in most cases and it's not related to heritage and tradition.
    Last edited by keannu; 13-Jan-2020 at 22:56.

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    #14

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Native speakers also struggle with spelling and pronunciation at times. It's simply not feasible to have a complete re-work to a universally agreed- upon phonetic alphabet.

  5. Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    #15

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    FI'm not showing off our Hangul, the Korean characters, but compared to other character systems, it's fairly easy to study and recognize even though it was created so late in 14th century.
    Anyway, my gist is that it's impossible to use Hangul for other language speakers, but recognizing syllables and pronunciations in the languages I mentioned is difficult to make learners sometimes frustrated. - I mean, consistent rules of matching pronunciations and characters are needed for any characters.
    I learnt to read Lao, and I don't see how Hangul are clearly better. Some European languages are phonetic It is a question of what you know.

  6. keannu's Avatar
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    #16

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I learnt to read Lao, and I don't see how Hangul are clearly better. Some European languages are phonetic It is a question of what you know.
    If you try learning Hangul, you will get to know how scientific it is.

  7. Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    #17

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Tell me first how it is better than the Lao system- you are, after all, making the claim. I make no claim- I just want to see a scientific proof that Hangul is superior. A claim you make. Back it up.

  8. keannu's Avatar
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    #18

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    Tell me first how it is better than the Lao system- you are, after all, making the claim. I make no claim- I just want to see a scientific proof that Hangul is superior. A claim you make. Back it up.
    I don't know Lao system, but if I compare the Roman characters and Hangul, it goes like this.

    - syllable based

    If we take a look at "language", it's hard to know for non-native speakers to find where the first syllable is, where the second syllable is, etc.
    We have to think about it for a while, then we come to know it is "lan-gua-ge", which most Koreans find hard to get.
    But in Korean, it's "랭귀지" - 랭(lan)귀(gua)지(ge). Most syllables are composed of "top consonant"+"vowel"+"bottom consonant" to make one independent sound.
    For example, "랭" = ㄹ(top consonant)+ㅐ(vowel)+ㅇ(bottom consonant)

    language- 랭(lŋ)귀(ɡwɪ)지(dʒ)

    - phonetic based
    In English, if you hear some word without knowing its spelling, sometimes you can't guess its spelling, but in Korean, even if you hear a new word without knowing its spelling, you can write down its spelling based on its sound in nine out of ten cases.
    The extra one case would be because of some consonant liaison or collision - I'm not sure of the grammar term.

    ex) 1.잉글리쉬(ɪŋɡlɪʃ)- we can write down as it is when we hear it.
    2. 영어(English) - ㅓ sound in "어" is like schwa in English, and it's never pronounced as any other sound.
    3. exception - 글자(pronunciation - 글짜 gulzza) - due to constant collision.

  9. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #19

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    If we take a look at "language", it's hard to know for non-native speakers to find where the first syllable is, where the second syllable is, etc.
    We have to think about it for a while, then we come to know it is "lan-gua-ge"
    That's incorrect. It's lan-guage. There are only two syllables, not three.

  10. keannu's Avatar
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    #20

    Re: no ə alphabet in English

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    That's incorrect. It's lan-guage. There are only two syllables, not three.
    OK, I was mistaken, let me correct it like this.

    language- 랭(lŋ)귖(ɡwɪdʒ)

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