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  1. tahasozgen's Avatar
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    #1

    A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Hi There;

    I am reading a book and there is a passage that I cannot understand. The passage is about politics and I want to kindly remind you that the ultimate purpose here is to learn English. If you are uncomfortable with the Marxism I propose not to read the rest of the message. This thread does not mean that I fully attend the meaning of the passage. This article belongs to Ernest Mandel and binds him. The book is "An Introduction to Marxism" written by Ernst Mandel. The original text is in Turkish, I translated into English with the help of the Google Translate. I cannot understand the main idea of the passage.

    A characteristic example of hybrid production relations, dominated by a hegemonic mode of production, is the relations of production in social institutions called "third world". Here, pre-capitalist, semi-capitalist production relations are side by side, combined with the frozen form under the pressure of the imperialist structures of the international economy. Despite the fact that capital is in the dominant position and the imperialist system is entered into, capitalist production relations (above all, the "wage labor-producer capital" relationship) can not be generalized at all, even though they exist and gain prevalence. However, this fact does not justify the definition of these formations as "feudal countries" or the hypothesis of the domination of feudal or semi-feudal production relations within them. This is a theoretical mistake that countless theorists inspired by Stalin or Mao have fallen.
    Here is my take from the passage:
    1. The pre-capitalist and capitalist productions are side by side in third world.
    2. Even though capitalist form of production is prevalent, it cannot be generalized in third world.

    So what is the theorotical mistake made by theorists inspired by Stalin or Mao?
    Last edited by tahasozgen; 13-Feb-2020 at 14:26.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #2

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Google Translate can do a remarkable job with relatively simple texts. In complex texts of this sort, it produces such tangled prose that it's impossible to guess what the original means.

    You might want to look up propose, attend and bind. The rest of your question is clear, but those three words don't work.
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    #3

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    The mistake seems to be considering these as "feudal countries."

    If your purpose is to learn English, you would be better served by reading books on Marxism written in English (or professionally translated).

    That way we will know if any gibberish is due to the subject matter or the Google translation.

  4. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Quote Originally Posted by tahasozgen View Post
    The original text is in Turkish, I translated into English with the help of the Google Translate. I cannot understand the main idea of the passage.
    That doesn't make sense, tahasozgen. How did you translate the text if you cannot understand the main idea of the passage?!

  5. tahasozgen's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    That doesn't make sense, tahasozgen. How did you translate the text if you cannot understand the main idea of the passage?!
    As I mentioned in the original thread, I got help from the Google translate. I can translate word by word. In addition, main words are similar in Turkish and English. For example, the word "Hegemonik" in Turkish, "hegemonic" in English. "Üretim" refers to "Production" in English. I understand the word by word, but when they form a sentence, I cannot understand like in English. In addition, I can assess the quality of the translation by reading both Turkish and English text.
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  6. tahasozgen's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    Google Translate can do a remarkable job with relatively simple texts. In complex texts of this sort, it produces such tangled prose that it's impossible to guess what the original means.

    You might want to look up propose, attend and bind. The rest of your question is clear, but those three words don't work.

    Thank you for your attention. I have looked up the meaning of the words, and I think the word "propose" is appropriate word.

    propose: Put forward (a plan or suggestion) for consideration by others.
    [with clause] ‘I proposed that the government should retain a 51 per cent stake in the company’
    (https://www.lexico.com/definition/propose)
    Last edited by tahasozgen; 14-Feb-2020 at 09:53.
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    #7

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Quote Originally Posted by tahasozgen View Post
    If you are uncomfortable with the Marxism I propose not to read the rest of the message.
    Quote Originally Posted by tahasozgen View Post
    I have looked up the meaning of the words, and I think the word "propose" is appropriate word.

    propose: Put forward (a plan or suggestion) for consideration by others.
    I can see why the definition led you to believe that "propose" could work there. We don't tend to use it, though, where "suggest" would fit. Try this simpler sentence: If you are uncomfortable with the Marxism, I suggest you skip the rest of the message.
    I am not a teacher.

  8. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Quote Originally Posted by tahasozgen View Post
    The book is "An Introduction to Marxism" written by Ernst Mandel. The original text is in Turkish
    I don't think you mean that. I imagine that the original is in either German or English. The Turkish version you worked from is a translation.

    I translated into English with the help of the Google Translate.
    Can I ask what your aim of doing that was?

    I'm a little lost here. Are you suggesting that you don't understand the meaning of the text in Turkish? Isn't Turkish your first language?

    I'd advise you to try to find a copy of the original text. If Mandel wrote this text in English (which I'm guessing he did), there's no need for you to translate anything. If you can post here the passage in the original version, we'll tell you what it means.

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    #9

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I don't think you mean that. I imagine that the original is in either German or English. The Turkish version you worked from is a translation.
    This Wikipedia bibliography suggests the original is in French.
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  10. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: A Marxist Dissection About the Third World

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    This Wikipedia bibliography suggests the original is in French.
    Thanks for that.

    In that case, I'd suggest tahasozgen find an English translation, a decent one of which must be available. Failing that, I'm confident that between us we can make sense of the original French. I have some experience in working with Marxist texts in French.

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