More than

[emsr2d2]

Please note that I have moved all your threads to the "Analysing and Diagramming Sentences" sub-forum.

[Luckysquirty]

NOT A TEACHER


I commend you for wanting to parse sentences. It's a great pastime -- and educational, too.

When you get extra time, you might want to look into the Reed-Kellogg diagramming system, which forces you to account for every single word in a sentence. A website entitled German - Latin - English.com will introduce you to it.

An American poet named Gertrude Stein wrote: "I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences."

Thank you for information. Will check.

[PaulMatthews]

More than twenty eggs are in the basket.

Could you kindly tell me what parts of speech are "more" and "than" in the sentence? Are they both adverbs? Are they joined and function as a compound adverb? Thank you.

No, they are not adverbs.

"More" is a determinative, and "than" is a preposition.

I'd say that "more than twenty" is a constituent, a determinative phrase functioning as determiner in the noun phrase "more than twenty eggs", the subject of the sentence.

[Piscean]

More is a determiner, I suppose.

"More" is a determinative

Those two quotes illustrate part of the problem you face when dealing with categories of word classes, Luckysquirty. 'Determiner' was a class unknown when I first studied grammar seriously many decades ago (many was an adjective in those antediluvian days). 'Determiner' soon became generally accepted as a word class, as it still is by many people. However, for some time now, 'determiner' is used by some grammarians for a function, 'determinative' being used for the word class.

Both jutfrank and Paul also mentioned 'preposition' in their posts. That is a word class that, for some grammarians, has many more members than it used to have. It now includes words that others still class as adverbs or conjunctions.

[TheParser]

More than twenty eggs are in the basket.

NOT A TEACHER

Hi,

I thought that you might like to know the opinion of my most admired grammarian, Dr. George Oliver Curme. Here are some ideas from his two-volume masterpiece A Grammar of the English Language (1931). He uses the names of the traditional parts of speech.


Volume I, page 175

1. He says that "more than" (as used in your kind of sentence) is an adverb. His examples: "More than one has found it" and "There is more than one reason."
2. But he feels that "more" is a plural indefinite pronoun in "There are more than one."


Volume II, page 59

3. Dr. Curme says that the adverb "more than" = "not merely."
4. He points out, however, that some grammarians consider the word "more" as a plural indefinite pronoun, so they use the plural verb: "More than one have found it so" instead of "More than one has found it so."
a. He reminds us that "Of course, the plural is used when the words are separated" as in "More have found it so than just he."


P.S. I hope that you continue to post questions in the diagramming sub-forum. When I first become a member some years back, there used to be a few members who regularly posted Reed-Kellogg diagrams. It was such fun! (I am too computer illiterate to do so.)

[Piscean]

Gertrude Stein wrote: "I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences."

She must have had a rather dull life.

[Luckysquirty]

NOT A TEACHER

Hi,

I thought that you might like to know the opinion of my most admired grammarian, Dr. George Oliver Curme. Here are some ideas from his two-volume masterpiece A Grammar of the English Language (1931). He uses the names of the traditional parts of speech.


Volume I, page 175

1. He says that "more than" (as used in your kind of sentence) is an adverb. His examples: "More than one has found it" and "There is more than one reason."
2. But he feels that "more" is a plural indefinite pronoun in "There are more than one."


Volume II, page 59

3. Dr. Curme says that the adverb "more than" = "not merely."
4. He points out, however, that some grammarians consider the word "more" as a plural indefinite pronoun, so they use the plural verb: "More than one have found it so" instead of "More than one has found it so."
a. He reminds us that "Of course, the plural is used when the words are separated" as in "More have found it so than just he."


P.S. I hope that you continue to post questions in the diagramming sub-forum. When I first become a member some years back, there used to be a few members who regularly posted Reed-Kellogg diagrams. It was such fun! (I am too computer illiterate to do so.)

Thanks for posting the information, TheParser. I could tell you are an open-minded, hard-working person. I will try to post examples that cause me to scratch my head. Thanks, again.

[Luckysquirty]

Those two quotes illustrate part of the problem you face when dealing with categories of word classes, Luckysquirty. 'Determiner' was a class unknown when I first studied grammar seriously many decades ago (many was an adjective in those antediluvian days). 'Determiner' soon became generally accepted as a word class, as it still is by many people. However, for some time now, 'determiner' is used by some grammarians for a function, 'determinative' being used for the word class.

Both jutfrank and Paul also mentioned 'preposition' in their posts. That is a word class that, for some grammarians, has many more members than it used to have. It now includes words that others still class as adverbs or conjunctions.

Change and evolution. Each generation brings in a different set of people with newer ideas. What was once unpopular may now be popular. But, you have to go with he flow. I don't see any problem in learning "word classes" in a sentence. It's like knowing what is underneath the hood of a car, opposed to just putting the key in the ignition and driving off. At least, if the car breaks down, you are prepared to get it running again yourself. Thanks for info. Every little bit helps.

[PaulMatthews]

More than twenty eggs are in the basket.

I don't think there's any doubt that "more" is the comparative form of the degree determinative "many", here taking a preposition phrase complement with the form "than" + quantifier (usually, as here, a numeral).

The determinative phrase "more than twenty" then has a quantificational meaning in the underlined noun phrase.

[Piscean]

Each generation brings in a different set of people with newer ideas.

And each generation has complete confidence in the correctness of their ideas -

I don't think there's any doubt that ...