What are we talking/do we talk about when we talk about X?

[Alexey86]

Hello! Sometimes I come across sentences like ''What are we talking about/do we talk about when we talk about happiness/love/life/business?"

Is there any difference in meaning between variants with and without the present progressive?

I couldn't find any variants with the present progressive + the present progressive or the present simple + the present progressive. Are these variants impossible? If so, why?

[Charlie Bernstein]

Here's present simple: Raymond Carver: "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love."

[jutfrank]

The use is the same and that's what's important. You don't need to worry about differences in meaning.

Both versions very basically mean something like What do we mean by ...?

[Alexey86]

The use is the same and that's what's important. You don't need to worry about differences in meaning.

Both versions very basically mean something like What do we mean by ...?

I couldn't find any examples with the present simple + the present progressive like "What do we talk about when we are talking about X?" These parts are not interchangeable. It means that even if I say, "We don't know what we talk about when we talk about love", the blue and the red parts will be different in some respect. What's the difference? It might have something to do with 'what' and 'when'.

[jutfrank]

I couldn't find examples with the present simple + the present progressive like "What do we talk about when we are talking about X?"

Right. That doesn't surprise me.

These parts are not interchangeable. It means that even if I say, "We don't know what we talk about when we talk about love", the blue and the red parts will be different in some respect. What's the difference? It might have something to do with ""what" and "when".

When the parts are symmetrical (both present simple), you can understand them in the same way, with no difference. But when the first is continuous and the second is simple, then yes, there is a difference.

You can understand this difference in terms of general/specific. The second clause is always more general, which is why it is always without aspect (i.e., in present simple). The first clause can be either simple (general) or continuous (specific).

Like I said, you don't need to worry about these differences in meaning. It's the use of the sentence frame that's important. That is, in terms of pragmatic (speaker) meaning, there's no difference.

[Alexey86]

You can understand this difference in terms of general/specific. The second clause is always more general, which is why it is always without aspect (i.e., in present simple). The first clause can be either simple (general) or continuous (specific).

That's what I wanted to know. Thank you!

When the parts are symmetrical (both present simple), you can understand them in the same way, with no difference.

Let me disagree. They are identical in form, but the 'general/specific' distinction is still in play. I think it has to do with 'what' and 'when'.

Like I said, you don't need to worry about these differences in meaning.

Not that I'm worried. I'm interested.

[jutfrank]

Let me disagree. They are identical in form, but the 'general/specific' distinction is still in play. I think it has to do with 'what' and 'when'.

I don't entirely disagree with that.

[Alexey86]

The second clause is always more general, which is why it is always without aspect (i.e., in present simple). The first clause can be either simple (general) or continuous (specific).

They are identical in form, but the 'general/specific' distinction is still in play. I think it has to do with 'what' and 'when'.

I mean if I'm right about 'what' and 'when', the second clause can be specific: When we talk about love, what are we talking about?

What do you think?

[jutfrank]

Yes, you've just swapped the positions of the clauses so that the 'second' clause now comes first.

(I'm quite keen for other members to express their views on this matter.)

[Alexey86]

I'm quite keen for other members to express their views on this matter.

I would be glad to see other opinions too.