Page 3 of 4 First 1 2 3 4 Last
Results 21 to 30 of 34
  1. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Georgia
      • Current Location:
      • Georgia

    • Join Date: Nov 2018
    • Posts: 1,641
    #21

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Right.



    That's right. I was not talking about going there at all, whether as a patient or not. I was just talking about how to refer to places that exist in a typical town.
    I see. Thank you. Just like modals this use of articles is not explained very well in books. Could you please tell me if these sentences are possible too?
    1. 'She has to stay at hospital.'
    2. 'She has to stay at a hospital.'
    3. 'She has to stay at the hospital.'(Not as a patient)

    1. 'She is in a hospital.'
    2. 'She is in hospital.'
    3. 'She is in the hospital.' (Not as a patient)

  2. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 12,060
    #22

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Adams View Post
    Just like modals this use of articles is not explained very well in books.
    Yes, I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Adams View Post
    Could you please tell me if these sentences are possible too?
    She has to stay in hospital.
    She has to stay in the hospital.
    (US)

    These both mean that she will treated as a patient. Don't ask me why US speakers like to use a definite article there. I don't recommend it.

    She has to stay at the hospital.

    This means she's not going to be a patient. She will stay there for some other reason.

  3. Moderator
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 18,233
    #23

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    She has to stay in hospital.
    She has to stay in the hospital.
    (US)

    These both mean that she will treated as a patient. Don't ask me why US speakers like to use a definite article there. I don't recommend it.
    The article is required in American English. I think some Americans would have trouble understanding the sentence without it.

    In hospital is, for those of us who notice such things, an infallible marker of British English. It stands out because it looks so odd to us. Nobody has to stay in clinic or in sick bay. (Actually, for the latter they do. Only in sick bay is possible. In clinic isn't. I have no idea why.)
    I am not a teacher.

  4. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 12,060
    #24

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    In hospital is, for those of us who notice such things, an infallible marker of British English
    I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the use of an article is a marker of American English. That's why the lack of one sounds odd only to Americans. (I'm not sure about Canadians.)

    Besides, it breaks the 'rules'. You wouldn't say an inmate is 'in the prison' or that worshippers 'go to the church'.

  5. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Georgia
      • Current Location:
      • Georgia

    • Join Date: Nov 2018
    • Posts: 1,641
    #25

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the use of an article is a marker of American English. That's why the lack of one sounds odd only to Americans. (I'm not sure about Canadians.)

    Besides, it breaks the 'rules'. You wouldn't say an inmate is 'in the prison' or that worshippers 'go to the church'.
    Yes, BrE is easier to learn. You didn't say anything about the other sentences. They are not correct. Right?

  6. Moderator
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 18,233
    #26

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Besides, it breaks the 'rules'. You wouldn't say an inmate is 'in the prison' or that worshippers 'go to the church'.
    Sadly, the rules don't seem to cover all cases. Or perhaps I'm wrong (a shocking concept, granted — but bear with me). Is it possible in British English to say that someone is in clinic? I'm trying to think of other in-between settings. How about in chapel? I'm not sure that one's entirely impossible in American English. I don't intersect with contexts where it would come up.

    During a couple of delightful sojourns at Oxbridge colleges, I learned that when you're in the college dining establishment you're in hall, which was initially incomprehensible to me. But in the hall wouldn't work any better, so I tend to think that particular usage is just one of the delightful quirks that make attaining (or getting a glimpse of) the pinnacle of British academic life worthwhile.
    I am not a teacher.

  7. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 12,060
    #27

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    Is it possible in British English to say that someone is in clinic?
    I'm not sure about that. I don't think I've heard it but that's not surprising. I could imagine that a professional might say it, though. Suffice to say, it would be understood as following the rule if someone were to say it. Anyway, I don't think it quite fits the exact use that I'm thinking of, where the noun represents a social institution. I don't think clinics count as institutions in the same way as hospitals.

    I'm trying to think of other in-between settings. How about in chapel? I'm not sure that one's entirely impossible in American English.
    I don't think that one counts, either. At least, not in the way in church counts.

    During a couple of delightful sojourns at Oxbridge colleges, I learned that when you're in the college dining establishment you're in hall, which was initially incomprehensible to me.
    Right. I've not heard that but it makes sense.

    I'm thinking of this whole thing pedagogically, remember. My aim is to advise RachelAdams in the best way I can, knowing what I know about her as a learner.
    Last edited by jutfrank; 28-May-2020 at 17:15. Reason: amendments

  8. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Georgia
      • Current Location:
      • Georgia

    • Join Date: Nov 2018
    • Posts: 1,641
    #28

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I'm not sure about that. I don't think I've heard it but that's not surprising. I could imagine that a professional might say it, though. Anyway, it would be understood as following the rule if someone were to say it. Anyway, I don't think it quite fits the exact use that I'm thinking of, where the noun represents a social institution. I don't think clinics counts.



    I don't think that one counts, either. At least, not in the way in church counts.



    Right. I've not heard that but it makes sense.

    I'm thinking of this whole thing pedagogically, remember. My aim is to advise RachelAdams in the best way I can, knowing what I know about her as a learner.
    I really appreciate your help.

  9. probus's Avatar
    Moderator
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Jan 2011
    • Posts: 4,661
    #29

    Re: At the opticians

    Minor factual correction. At least here in Canada optometrists are the professionals who assess visual acuity and prescribe corrective lenses. Opticians do not test vision. They are the ones who actually fill the prescription and fit the glasses to their wearer. I think the situation is the same in the USA but may vary in other countries.

  10. emsr2d2's Avatar
    Moderator
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2009
    • Posts: 54,929
    #30

    Re: At the opticians

    Quote Originally Posted by probus View Post
    Minor factual correction. At least here in Canada optometrists are the professionals who assess visual acuity and prescribe corrective lenses. Opticians do not test vision. They are the ones who actually fill the prescription and fit the glasses to their wearer. I think the situation is the same in the USA but may vary in other countries.
    That's the same in the UK but, in all honesty, most people don't know the difference.
    Remember - if you don't use correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing, anything you write will be incorrect.

Page 3 of 4 First 1 2 3 4 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •