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  1. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    Could you tell me why?
    I'll give you a simple practical rule:

    Don't use a possessive apostrophe in possessive of-phrases unless the prepositional object is a person's name (Tommy, etc.)

    There's some disagreement when the object is itself a possessive phrase. For example, with pronouns, we must use a possesive form:

    this heart of me
    this heart of mine


    The apostrophe is not required because the word mine is already possessive.

    However, when the object includes a possessive determiner (my/your/our, etc.), the grammaticality is not so clear:

    the house of my brother
    the house of my brother's


    My general advice to learners (as a teacher, not a grammarian) is to avoid forms of the second type above. If you follow my rule, b, d and g are incorrect.

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    #12

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I'll give you a simple practical rule:

    Don't use a possessive apostrophe in possessive of-phrases unless the prepositional object is a person's name (Tommy, etc.)
    h. I'm a friend of Susi.
    i. I'm a friend of Susi's.

    Following to your rule, I should use (i). Am I right?

    However, you said in the following thread, "If you're disturbed by this, I suggest you use the former. It's more logical and easier to say."

    https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/t...=1#post1391488

    Could you tell me more about that?
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

  3. jutfrank's Avatar
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    #13

    Re: the property of the residents

    My rule allows the use of i, but that doesn't mean you should use it.

    Both h and i are fine. Use whichever one you prefer. I think h is a bit better for low to intermediate level learners, just because it's simpler. i might be better for higher level learners—especially those who are able to pronounce it very accurately.

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    #14

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    My rule allows the use of i, but that doesn't mean you should use it.

    Both h and i are fine. Use whichever one you prefer. I think h is a bit better for low to intermediate level learners, just because it's simpler. i might be better for higher level learners—especially those who are able to pronounce it very accurately.

    Can this reply be applied to this case?

    j. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy? (my version)

    k. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy's?

    https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...nglish/of?q=Of
    -------

    Both (j) and (k) are fine. Use whichever one you prefer. I think (j) is a bit better for low to intermediate level learners, just because it's simpler. (k) might be better for higher level learners—especially those who are able to pronounce it very accurately.
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

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    #15

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post

    Can this reply be applied to this case?

    j. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy? (my version)

    k. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy's?
    J doesn't work. K is possible.
    I am not a teacher.

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    #16

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I'll give you a simple practical rule:

    Don't use a possessive apostrophe in possessive of-phrases unless the prepositional object is a person's name (Tommy, etc.)
    j. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy? (my version)

    k. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy's?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    J doesn't work. K is possible.

    Could you tell why? Doesn't (J) follow jutfrank's rule?
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

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    #17

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    j. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy? (my version)

    k. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy's?
    Sorry, I made a mistake. Forget post #16.

    I meant to say why (h) is possible while (j) isn't.

    h. I'm a friend of Susi.
    i. I'm a friend of Susi's.
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

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    #18

    Re: the property of the residents

    j. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy?

    h. I'm a friend of Susi.
    ----------

    j. doesn't work, but h. does. Could you please tell me about this?
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

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    #19

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    j. Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy?

    h. I'm a friend of Susi.
    ----------

    j. doesn't work, but h. does. Could you please tell me about this?
    This is a hard question for me.

    Here is my guess:

    "Friend" and "Susi" are the same kind of thing (people), so the expression works. "Bike" and "Tommy" are not, so the expression doesn't work.

    What do you think?
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

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    #20

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    "Friend" and "Susi" are the same kind of thing (people), so the expression works. "Bike" and "Tommy" are not, so the expression doesn't work.

    What do you think?
    You may be on the right track, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule. She's an old girlfriend of mine definitely works. That's an old guitar of mine would not, I think, raise eyebrows. It's an old house of mine is more of a stretch.

    Replace "mine" with Tommy's and only the "girlfriend" sentence works.
    I am not a teacher.

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