Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Last
Results 1 to 10 of 23
  1. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Mar 2017
    • Posts: 2,569
    #1

    the property of the residents

    of
    PREPOSITION
    [...]
    4. used for saying who something belongs to

    the property of the residents

    They ended up living in the house of Jeanne’s oldest brother.

    https://www.macmillandictionary.com/...y/british/of_1
    ----------
    a.
    the property of the residents

    b. the property of the residents' (my version)

    c. They ended up living in the house of Jeanne’s oldest brother.

    d. They ended up living in the house of Jeanne’s oldest brother's. (my version)

    --------

    1. Do (a) and (b) mean the same?

    2.
    Do (c) and (d) mean the same?

    PS - The following discussion may interests you: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/t...friend-of-Susi
    Last edited by kadioguy; 05-Jun-2020 at 09:47. Reason: added contents
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

  2. VIP Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Malaysia
      • Current Location:
      • Malaysia

    • Join Date: Apr 2014
    • Posts: 6,108
    #2

    Re: the property of the residents

    (b) and (d) with apostrophe "s" are not correct.

    "Jeanne's oldest brother's house" is likely to be said.
    I am not a teacher or a native speaker.

  3. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Mar 2017
    • Posts: 2,569
    #3

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by tedmc View Post
    (b) and (d) with apostrophe "s" are not correct.
    Could you tell me why?
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

  4. VIP Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Malaysia
      • Current Location:
      • Malaysia

    • Join Date: Apr 2014
    • Posts: 6,108
    #4

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    Could you tell me why?
    It is clear when you say "the property of the residents" that the property belongs to the residents. The apostrophe 's' is superfluous.
    I am not a teacher or a native speaker.

  5. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Mar 2017
    • Posts: 2,569
    #5

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by tedmc View Post
    It is clear when you say "the property of the residents" that the property belongs to the residents. The apostrophe 's' is superfluous.
    But that doesn't necessarily mean that the ones with apostrophe are not correct. They can be just a style of writing.
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

  6. Moderator
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 18,345
    #6

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    But that doesn't necessarily mean that the ones with apostrophe are not correct. They can be just a style of writing.
    They are incorrect. The preposition "of" establishes the sense of possession and it's wrong to add an apostrophe to a noun when "of" makes it clear that it's the possessor of something.

    You may wonder why sentences like He's a friend of John's don't violate this rule. I don't know. That construction is an exception. The Court of St. James's is another which is, I think, just a fossilized old usage.
    I am not a teacher.

  7. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Mar 2017
    • Posts: 2,569
    #7

    Re: the property of the residents

    What do you think about this sentence?

    Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy's?

    https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...nglish/of?q=Of

    I think it is the same kind as (d).
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

  8. Moderator
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 18,345
    #8

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    What do you think about this sentence?

    Can't you throw out that old bike of Tommy's?

    https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...nglish/of?q=Of

    I think it is the same kind as (d).
    Not quite. I think the choice of determiner is critical. Sentence D uses the definite article. The Oxford sentence uses a different one. That old bike of Tommy's and A friend of John's follow a different pattern from D.

    I'm sure grammarians have thought about this question in depth and can explain it. I can't.
    I am not a teacher.

  9. Key Member
    Student or Learner
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Mar 2017
    • Posts: 2,569
    #9

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by GoesStation View Post
    Not quite. I think the choice of determiner is critical. Sentence D uses the definite article. The Oxford sentence uses a different one. That old bike of Tommy's and A friend of John's follow a different pattern from D.

    I'm sure grammarians have thought about this question in depth and can explain it. I can't.
    (e) That old bike of Tommy's
    (f) A friend of John's
    (g) The house of Jeanne’s oldest brother's

    So you think that
    (g) is grammatically different from (e) and (f), and that (g) is incorrect while (e) and (f) are correct.

    Then how about (a) and (b)? Do you think that (b) is the same pattern as (g) (both of them include
    the definite article "the", and the apostrophe, i.e., the possessive) , so (b) is also incorrect while (a) is ​correct?

    (a) the property of the residents
    (b) the property of the residents'
    I am not a teacher. If there is anything ungrammatical in my post, please correct it. I am grateful for your help.

  10. Moderator
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2015
    • Posts: 18,345
    #10

    Re: the property of the residents

    Quote Originally Posted by kadioguy View Post
    (e) That old bike of Tommy's
    (f) A friend of John's
    (g) The house of Jeanne’s oldest brother's

    So you think that
    (g) is grammatically different from (e) and (f), and that (g) is incorrect while (e) and (f) are correct. Yes.

    Then how about (a) and (b)? Do you think that (b) is the same pattern as (g) (both of them include
    the definite article "the", and the apostrophe, i.e., the possessive) , so (b) is also incorrect while (a) is correct?

    (a) the property of the residents
    (b) the property of the residents'
    Yes.
    I am not a teacher.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •