Page 2 of 4 First 1 2 3 4 Last
Results 11 to 20 of 40
  1. VIP Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 17,255
    #11

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post


    Evidence for Victor's and Henry's sympathy for her saintly qualities seems much stronger.
    I don't see this in the words you have quoted.
    Typoman - writer of rongs

  2. Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Jan 2019
    • Posts: 337
    #12

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    I don't see this in the words you have quoted.
    Both Victor and Henry were positively influenced by Elizabeth; this could not have happened if the two of them had not been sympathetic to her saintly qualities.

  3. Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    VIP Member
    Other
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 6,909
    #13

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    I find the first quoted passage anything but a strong piece of evidence for Elizabeth's sympathy for Victor and Henry. . . .
    I'd call it appreciation. I wouldn't call it sympathy, but you're welcome to.

    Again, you'd be reasonable to think they might feel sympathy for her. I have no problem with that. That's the magic of engaging writing: It makes you imagine beyond the text. But the text you've posted doesn't explicitly state whether they do or don't feel sympathy.

    I've already rephrased "Her sympathy was ours" for you. We had her sympathy. It was ours.

    You don't have to agree. It sounds like you've already interpreted it to your own satisfaction. That's fine.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

  4. VIP Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • Europe
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Jul 2015
    • Posts: 17,255
    #14

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    You don't have to agree.
    Indeed not. But I do.
    Typoman - writer of rongs

  5. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 12,321
    #15

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    I find the first quoted passage anything but a strong piece of evidence for Elizabeth's sympathy for Victor and Henry.
    You must be misreading it because the 'evidence' could not be stronger. Those four words are saying only one thing, very clearly and literally—that Elizabeth had sympathy for Victor and Henry.

    I can't see how you could be misreading this. Also, where do you get the idea of an image from? What image are you imagining?

  6. Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Jan 2019
    • Posts: 337
    #16

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    You must be misreading it because the 'evidence' could not be stronger. Those four words are saying only one thing, very clearly and literally—that Elizabeth had sympathy for Victor and Henry.

    I can't see how you could be misreading this. Also, where do you get the idea of an image from? What image are you imagining?
    I am asking if there is evidence for those four words, "Her sympathy was ours." Saying one thing does not mean there's strong evidene for it in the text. I'd expect a general statement to be supported by details.

    The passage uses religious images such as "saintly," "celestial," "shrine-dedicated lamp," and "bless." I was entertaining the possiility that "her sympathy was ours" was also a religious image, maybe in relation to sainthood.

  7. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 12,321
    #17

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    I am asking if there is evidence for those four words, "Her sympathy was ours."
    Evidence for what? Have I misunderstood your question?

  8. Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Jan 2019
    • Posts: 337
    #18

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Evidence for what? Have I misunderstood your question?
    If I were presented with a general statement like "John is an excellent cook," I'd expect several sentences to illustrate how well he cooks.
    Likewise, "her sympathy was ours" also leads me to expect details that illustrate her sympathy.

  9. Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Taiwan
      • Current Location:
      • Taiwan

    • Join Date: Jan 2019
    • Posts: 337
    #19

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Also, where do you get the idea of an image from? What image are you imagining?
    The only relevant sense of "sympathy" in the American Heritage Dictionary is mutual understanding or feeling between people. I'm thinking about the the practice of intercession of saints in Catholic belief. Catholics pray through saints, who they believe understand their feelings of anxiety, etc., and whose love and help they claim to have experienced.

  10. jutfrank's Avatar
    VIP Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Mar 2014
    • Posts: 12,321
    #20

    Re: Her sympathy was ours

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    If I were presented with a general statement like "John is an excellent cook," I'd expect several sentences to illustrate how well he cooks.
    Likewise, "her sympathy was ours" also leads me to expect details that illustrate her sympathy.
    Okay, I understand the question now. I thought you were asking if there was evidence within the four words themselves. Well, in this case 'evidence' is not really the right word because none is needed—the four words speak for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by raymondaliasapollyon View Post
    If I were presented with a general statement like "John is an excellent cook," I'd expect several sentences to illustrate how well he cooks.
    That's reasonable because that statement is an opinion, i.e., a claim which could demand supporting evidence .


    Likewise, "her sympathy was ours" also leads me to expect details that illustrate her sympathy.
    This is a very different kind of utterance. It is not a claim, but an impression. You have no cause to question its truth, or to demand any justification. If I told you that I felt happy, you wouldn't ask me what evidence I had to say such a thing, would you?

Page 2 of 4 First 1 2 3 4 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •