Page 10 of 10 First ... 6 7 8 9 10
Results 91 to 99 of 99
  1. #91
    jutfrank's Avatar
    jutfrank is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    14,205

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexey86 View Post
    This is definitely true for (2). But in (1) and (3) the building is known:

    (1) "Luckily it was mostly beer 6,000 cans of it -- that was shot up Sunday. But the liquor distributor in Baghdad was hit with a full-scale assault:
    several cars and a minivan full of masked men with guns and grenades sprayed the building with hundreds of rounds.
    Fifty workers and customers huddled for safety on a second floor as it was raked with bullets."

    (3) The article's title is 'Chicago’s Homan Square 'black site': surveillance, military-style vehicles and a metal cage.' It starts with
    ''This building (picture below) looks innocent enough. But those familiar with the secretive interrogation and holding facility describe a shocking display of police abuses"
    ...
    Brian Jacob Church was taken to Homan Square after police picked him up in 2012 on terrorism charges he beat at trial.
    He said police first photographed him for a biometrics database, took him down a long cinderblock hallway on a second floor, and handcuffed him to a bench bolted to the floor."
    Yes, (1) is odd because, as you say, the building is apparently known. I didn't read the whole passage properly. I can only imagine that this is reference to another building.

    (3) is also unclear from the context given. I don't know why the author used an indefinite article there. If there really is only one building involved here, I can imagine that the writer of the article may be dictating what Mr Church had told him—indicating that the second floor in question was unknown to him at the time. Just a guess.

  2. #92
    Tarheel's Avatar
    Tarheel is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    22,616

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    GeneD, I think you meant contradictory.
    Not a professional teacher

  3. #93
    GeneD is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Belarus
      • Current Location:
      • Belarus
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    855

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. Everything has an explanation. Just because you can't see one doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
    Man can't know everything and can't explain everything. I meant by 'there is no explanation' that 'man doesn't have explanations to everything and simply can't have them'.
    If it's not too much trouble to you, could you please correct any errors I might have made in this post?

  4. #94
    GeneD is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Belarus
      • Current Location:
      • Belarus
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    855

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel View Post
    GeneD, I think you meant contradictory.
    I don't see what you mean, but probably you are right. It's a hobby of mine as a learner of English to put errors all over the place.
    If it's not too much trouble to you, could you please correct any errors I might have made in this post?

  5. #95
    Alexey86 is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Russian Federation
      • Current Location:
      • Russian Federation
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    762

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneD View Post
    Man can't know everything and can't explain everything. I meant by 'there is no explanation' that 'man doesn't have explanations to everything and simply can't have them'.

    I think article usage is a little bit simpler matter than the origin of life, so we can try to explain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Excellent examples. You can definitely work with those. I think they illustrate my explanation about instantiations very well.
    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    Each second floor is one instance of a second floor. You cannot interpret them to mean that each building has multiple second floors. Using the definite article would be quite inappropriate in these contexts as the building in question has not been specified. You can't refer to 'the' second floor if you don't know which building you're talking about.
    ...

    Meaning comes from an unconscious part of the mind and is formed from unconscious conceptual and spatial structures.
    Let's put aside the fact the examples aren't excellent, as we have seen. GS thinks (1) is simply an error. But your main point goes pretty much along the lines of my idea of open-ended/closed structures and complements it. I'll repeat it here:

    Temperatures and levels are parts of open-ended structures. You can always add one more degree or develop your command of any language. Floors, on the other hand, are typically parts of closed structures:


    A building under construction can be considered an open-ended structure, which allows me to tell somebody the news that I've built a second floor. To be clear, open-endness is not an inherent feature of such a building itself. It's all about the speaker's and listener's shared knowledge. If the listener already knew the second floor was under construction, it would become part of a closed information structure.

    Based on your comment above, I can add that when we first mention a floor of some unspecified building the information structure is open-ended, which allows us to use 'a/an'.
    Last edited by Alexey86; 25-Oct-2020 at 19:59.
    Not a teacher or native speaker

  6. #96
    GeneD is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Belarus
      • Current Location:
      • Belarus
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    855

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    I think article usage is a little bit simpler matter than the origin of life, so we can try to explain it.
    The article usage in building a second floor example, to me, is fairly easily explained. I don't know whether you checked the thread (I gave this link to you before). I think the examples in it are of the same kind as in your building another floor (second, third, etc) examples. A few ones from there:

    Would you like a second/third helping?
    I gave it a second look.'
    The song was released as a third single from this album.

    Here's Natkretep's short explanation (#15):
    Yes, it's just the normal rules for definite and indefinite articles. If it helps, a third should work if it can be replaced by another and the third with the other. (Might not work 100%, but this will be indicative, I think.)


    Last edited by GeneD; 25-Oct-2020 at 23:01.
    If it's not too much trouble to you, could you please correct any errors I might have made in this post?

  7. #97
    Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    Charlie Bernstein is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,955

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    Yes. As I said above, I agree with Natkretep. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

  8. #98
    Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    Charlie Bernstein is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,955

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneD View Post
    . . . Here's Natkretep's short explanation (#15):
    Yes, it's just the normal rules for definite and indefinite articles. If it helps, a third should work if it can be replaced by another and the third with the other. (Might not work 100%, but this will be indicative, I think.)
    Yup. As I said above, I agree with Natkretep. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

  9. #99
    Alexey86 is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Russian Federation
      • Current Location:
      • Russian Federation
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    762

    Re: at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneD View Post
    The article usage in building a second floor example, to me, is fairly easy explained. I don't know whether you checked the thread (I gave this link to you before).

    I've read it, thank you. I agree to build a second floor is easily explainable. The idea of open-ended/closed structures is an attempt to find a general explanation for:
    1) a second floor, a temperature of, and an intermediate level
    2) to build a second floor vs to build the second floor
    3) on the second floor vs on a second floor
    Last edited by Alexey86; 25-Oct-2020 at 22:56.
    Not a teacher or native speaker

Page 10 of 10 First ... 6 7 8 9 10

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •