[Grammar] mix present perfect with past perfect

[astepforward]

Hi folks!

Are the sentences below gramatically correct?

[1] I have baked an apple pie that I had been picking apples for.

[2] I have made an apple pie from a recipe I had found in the Internet.

If not why should I use past simple over past perfect in these examples?

Thanks

 

[Tarheel]

Hi folks!

Are the sentences below grammatically correct?

[1] I have baked an apple pie that I had been picking apples for.

[2] I have made an apple pie from a recipe I had found in the Internet.

If not why should I use past simple over past perfect in these examples?

They might technically be grammatically correct, but I find them unnatural. I might say:

I baked an apple pie that I picked the apples for myself.

And:

I baked an apple pie from a recipe I found on the internet.

I use the perfect tense only if I have a reason to do so.

 

[jutfrank]

I see what you're trying to do, but unfortunately your sentences are not very good, for several reasons.

One of those reasons is that in both sentences, the first clause is in the present tense.

[cross-posted]

 

[astepforward]

I know that the present perfect tense has a strong connection with the present, but the clause itself tells us about the event that happened in the past.
While using past perfect my intention is to point out that one activity happens before the other one and both are past events.


[1] I have baked an apple pie from a recipe I had found on the Internet. It is easy to make and very tasty, I can provide you with the link.
[2] I have baked an apple pie from a recipe I found on the Internet. It is easy to make and very tasty, I can provide you with the link.

I consider baking an apple pie as a past event with present relevance and both [1] and [2] works for me. Where am I wrong?

 

[Tarheel]

Ron: I baked an apple pie.
Sarah: Really? When?
Ron: Just now. It just finished.
Sarah: Was it hard?
Ron: No. It was fairly easy. I found the recipe on the internet.
Sarah: I bet it's tasty.
Ron; Do you want some?
Sarah: Sure do!

 

[Raymott]

I use the perfect tense only if I have a reason to do so.

This should be taught as another rule for using the past perfect.

You did two things. You baked an apple pie. You found the recipe on the 'net. Now which one happened first? You don't need the past perfect tense for that.

 

[astepforward]

So if the fact which activity happened first could be easily inffered from the context given then we do not use the past perfect, right?

 

[Tarheel]

Did you see my dialogue in post #7? They use short, simple sentences just like in a normal conversation.

 

[astepforward]

Yes, I saw it. Yes, they do. But I would like my introductory sentence "I have baked an apple pie" to be in the present perfect tense in order to make an association with the present (I can give you a review now). To me, the past simple tense doesn't convey this information the same way. I know now that I should not mix the past perfect with present perfect tense, because of the present aspect of a past situation. I see that the past simple is commonly used instead of the past perfect. Can you provide me with a sample sentence when it is obligatory to use the past perfect, where usage of simple past doesn't convey the sequence?

 

[Raymott]

Often, perhaps usually, the need for the past perfect comes from the total context, not just the sentence in which it's used.
"He offered me a piece of apple pie. It looked good, but I'd already eaten." Not, "I already ate", although some Americans might say this.

Can I suggest that you download some good free novels from Project Gutenberg and search for "he had". Many instances will be the past perfect, and you'll get a better appreciation for when it's used.
eg. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1400/1400-h/1400-h.htm

"I earnestly expressed my hope that he wouldn’t, and held tighter to the tombstone on which he had put me."
"I was very much afraid of him again, now that he had worked himself into this fierce hurry."

The Great Gatsby - more modern
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200041h.html

 

[Tarheel]

Apparently, nobody thinks they do any good. Maybe I should stop composing those dialogues. I thought there was a purpose behind them. But people don't pay any attention to them. They don't help anybody.
:-(

 

[astepforward]

I do pay attention to all the dialogues posted here. I find the dialogue in post #7 not much help to my doubts though. It is important to me to combine these two sentences: I have baked an apple pie. I used the recipe I had found on the internet. into one, where the tense of the first one stays the same. After reading all the posts I would do it this way: I have baked an apple pie from a recipe I found on the internet. Some matters are simply not that obvious to me, but I really appreciate your work. Keep it up!

 

[tzfujimino]

But people don't pay any attention to them.

I do!

They don't help anybody.

... and that's not true.